What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

Guys,

I have a legitimate grievance against an airline for $544. I have tried to resolve the matter through phone, then e-mail, then certified mail, then the Better Business Bureau. If I file in small claims court against them- I know that I need to do this across the country in their home county and so forth- what should I expect? Will they actually bother to send a slick lawyer to crush me or will they noshow and allow me to win by default?

-Michael

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

My boss -- a partner at my firm -- used to defend these claims in small claims courts. I don't really have any info for you other than than they at least used to send real lawyers.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

I have no experience with this, and I know you've thought about it, but to chime in anywho: my first thought was that no way does it make any financial sense to pay lawyers to contest that amount. I wouldn't be surprised if they were notified of the suit and responded with some form letter and your money.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

wont defense with a lawyer cost more than 544?

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

Not an expert here, but I imagine that in a lot of cases, if he won, there would be a precident for a class-action suit that some lawyer would jump on. Even if there wasn't, everyone could just start filing small lawsuits that they know they wouldn't fight.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not an expert here, but I imagine that in a lot of cases, if he won, there would be a precident for a class-action suit that some lawyer would jump on. Even if there wasn't, everyone could just start filing small lawsuits that they know they wouldn't fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure class actions are statutorily excluded for property claims against airlines.

To the poster who asked about cost of defense being more than $544, the answer is yes, but they don't care. It's not much more, b/c I think the lawyers do it on a flat rate and they probably send the jr associates to cut their teeth. The paperwork.briefs have been written ages ago and are just recycled.

I think. This is my vague recollection of what my boss would tell me.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

How about some background as to why you are owed 544 bucks? That would probably be more interesting

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

It really isn't that interesting. I purchased two tickets under a buy one, get one free offer. Because the miles were never credited to my frequent flier account, despite the fact that I used my frequent flier account to register, I was not awarded the miles.

The language of their offer was extremely complicated from the start and, recognizing this, I took extreme care to get the steps correct. I have screenshots of everything I did so my case is fairly solid, because the whole thing aroused my suspicions from the start.

I have been dealing with this forever and frankly it already is to the point where it's not worth my time and effort. Plus, I would need to file and try the case in Florida, which is a crosscountry trip for me. I suppose I could add these fees to my claim?

-Michael

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

My wife (then girlfriend) once took a landlord to small claims court and the judge basically said small claims court is a good idea on paper but it doesnt really work. She said even if she ruled in someones favor she has no way of making the other person pay up. She strongly urged them to sit down and work it out, which they did. It just may not be worth the time and trouble, which sucks because I recently had trouble with a major airline and was beyond angry.

btw, which airline?

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

sue those [censored]...

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

Why do you have to sue in Florida?

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

Small claims rules are very bizarre; you must file the lawsuit where the HQ of the company is located. This actually leads to a lot of problems trying to file suit against internet scammers because they hide their location and their company doesn't really have an easy-to-find location.

I am no expert, I have done only cursory research, so if I am wrong I would appreciate being corrected. And of course don't take my word for gold here.

-Michael

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
wont defense with a lawyer cost more than 544?

[/ QUOTE ]


Big companies pay their lawyers a salary, not per hour.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

emon,

Does the phrase "opportunity cost" cause you to reconsider your post? Oh and big companies pay it both ways.

J

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

I have it on good authority that threatening to write a letter directly to the DOT may have a positive effect on your case.

No guarantees, but I've heard of airlines getting motivated about such things.

-d

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wont defense with a lawyer cost more than 544?

[/ QUOTE ]


Big companies pay their lawyers a salary, not per hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is still a costs them, in resources, to fight.

I'd get the right person's information at the airline and go nuts. Call them every day, etc.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wont defense with a lawyer cost more than 544?

[/ QUOTE ]


Big companies pay their lawyers a salary, not per hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

so? surely the salary could be broken down in per hour incrememts.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wont defense with a lawyer cost more than 544?

[/ QUOTE ]


Big companies pay their lawyers a salary, not per hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

so? surely the salary could be broken down in per hour incrememts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Companies are gonna stand up for themselves though.. They realize that they can't give in to every small claim just cause its gonna cost them more to fight it.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Small claims rules are very bizarre; you must file the lawsuit where the HQ of the company is located. This actually leads to a lot of problems trying to file suit against internet scammers because they hide their location and their company doesn't really have an easy-to-find location.

I am no expert, I have done only cursory research, so if I am wrong I would appreciate being corrected. And of course don't take my word for gold here.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

You can sue them wherever they do business. That means right in the county where you live if that's where you made your purchase. The court clerk will tell you how to serve the papers. I don't know if they'll send a lawyer but who cares? You're on a freeroll. Show your stuff and see what happens. If you get a judgement I can't imagine an airline simply ignoring it but if they do you get to have fun foreclosing on one of their 747's.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

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Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $1/$3
2 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] : : :
<font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $5</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($10, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $3</font>, Hero calls.

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SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $6</font>, SB calls.

Results:
Final pot: $28

Could you please tell us what you had?

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

money mag this month has an article about smalls claims court - specificy highlighting one person who sued a major airline. just got my copy in the mail a few days ago.

guy's grievance was he was bumped from boarding and missed a day's work. they claimed he violated policy by arriving at the gate too late. he had documentation showing he was there and he won.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
he had documentation showing he was there and he won.

[/ QUOTE ]

But how much did he lose?
Oh, sorry, wrong forum for this.

How much did he get from the airline?

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he had documentation showing he was there and he won.

[/ QUOTE ]

But how much did he lose?
Oh, sorry, wrong forum for this.

How much did he get from the airline?

[/ QUOTE ]

haha. good one.

uggh. i dont remember the exact figure. i read it last night. i think it was around $1100-$1300.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

Most states don't allow legal representation for a small claim, so the airline wouldn't be allowed to send the lawyers in anyway.

I'm betting they no show. I sued a car dealership over a repair and they didn't show. And that was just a local dealer.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Most states don't allow legal representation for a small claim, so the airline wouldn't be allowed to send the lawyers in anyway.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they can send lawyers and they probably will. Who else do you think would show up for the airline? A pilot? A reservation clerk?

Remember that laws are written and passed mostly by lawyers and they don't leave themselves out of very much.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Most states don't allow legal representation for a small claim, so the airline wouldn't be allowed to send the lawyers in anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm curious too. who are they supposed to send then? the CEO? what if he's a lawyer? what if it's a small law firm and everyone that works there is a lawyer?

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

MD,

More details on the specific offer/transaction, pls.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

corportations are required to send a lawyer to small claims court as you are not suing an individual but the company. they likely will no show and you will win a judgement and then proceed to try to collect as howard says. at some point if persistant you may get your money plus expenses. most likely once you file someone from the airline will be very anxious to talk with you. good luck with the bas turds.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

Similar.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
corportations are required to send a lawyer to small claims court as you are not suing an individual but the company. they likely will no show and you will win a judgement and then proceed to try to collect as howard says. at some point if persistant you may get your money plus expenses. most likely once you file someone from the airline will be very anxious to talk with you. good luck with the bas turds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't find the old story but years back someone sued Co-op City in the Bronx and got a small claims judgement that some nit-wit in the co-op's offices ignored. So the winner went to foreclose on the entire property. Hysteria ensued. Of course he didn't get to foreclose but it made the papers.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Guys,

I have a legitimate grievance against an airline for $544. I have tried to resolve the matter through phone, then e-mail, then certified mail, then the Better Business Bureau. If I file in small claims court against them- I know that I need to do this across the country in their home county and so forth- what should I expect? Will they actually bother to send a slick lawyer to crush me or will they noshow and allow me to win by default?

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have a bunch of screenshots I'd email them to Consumerist and at least embarrass the airline.

scrub

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

(Warning: very boring) Here are the details, hopefully I get them all correct:

This was a BOGO (buy-one-get-one-free) offer from Spirit Air. In order to take advantage of the offer, I actually canceled tickets I had purchased just one day before the offer came out, paying a $150 change fee.

The process for getting your BOGO flier involves a lot of steps, some of them seemingly unnecessary. You must sign up for a Free Spirit account number, make your flight reservations online using your Free Spirit account, and enter your Free Spirit number (only your number, the page looks very shady although to my knowledge nobody else had similar problems) on a separate BOGO page which is different from any of the other purchasing pages and so forth.

Then, some many days later, I was to receive your BOGO flier in an e-mail. Then you must book a flight very quickly to be used during a specific timeframe some months from now. All very standard airline-type BS, but intentionally confusing nonetheless.

Anyways, needless to say I receive no BOGO flier. I contact SpiritAir and, after explaining my situation, I am immediately told that I entered the information wrong. We go back and forth and I swear that I entered all of the information correctly. The first customer service representative refuses to transfer me to a supervisor for five minutes while I repeat "transfer me to your supervisor" to everything she says.

Finally I am transferred to a supervisor who sticks by the "you didn't enter your information properly" defense. This goes roundabout for an hour or so and she says there is no higher supervisor than her, so I am eventually left high and dry.

Since this time, I discovered that my Free Spirit account was never credited with any miles for the flight, period. So it is very likely that the problem doesn't even involve any of the tricky BOGO steps, but rather is an issue of the flight being credited to my account at all, before we even get to a discussion of the special BOGO designation. This doesn't make sense, since I purchased the flight using my free spirit account. I called Spirit again and brought this to their attention. They again state that I entered things improperly.

Since then, I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau of Southeast Florida and received an e-mail response from Spirit in which they reiterated everything they have already told me. This e-mail also included the line "simply logging in and purchasing the flight using your Free Spirit account is not sufficient to have your Free Spirit miles credited to this account." I believe, but am not sure, that the discrepancy could be in that my last name on my Free Spirit account has a space in it and, though I entered it with a space on their webpage, the space is eliminated and so my name is different as their computers read the text strings. The computer system thus determines that the ticket is being purchased for someone who is not the account holder and does not properly credit the miles. (Also, absurdly, my girlfriend has a hyphen in her last name and is potentially subject to the same issue, which is why her miles were not credited.)

Note: I am only proposing this computer text issue as a possibility as I don't know for sure and as far as Spirit is concerned this is my fault, although what is undeniable is that I was logged into my Free Spirit account when making the purchase.

Anyways, I think this line from their e-mail is pretty damning, and after I responded to them by e-mail indicating such, I received their formal response to the Better Business Bureau. This response was almost a carbon copy of the e-mail I received, except a few key lines that I had questions about were eliminated. I still have the original e-mail, of course.

As to why they are being so unreasonable with a customer who obviously made a good faith effort to take advantage of their deal, I cannot answer.

-Michael

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

giant airline?

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

I had a major problem with an airline once. I stopped payment from my credit card and wrote them repeatedly. Here are some of the steps :

1. Tell credit card company the charge is in dispute. They won't stop payment yet. Write a letter to airline &amp; copy to credit card company.

2. Airline still doesn't comply, stop payment on credit card. Again send letter copies.

3. Airline still wants the payment. Send letter to airline &amp; copy to credit report agency saying charge is in error.

4. Send letter to consumer protection boards, such as :

Aviation Consumer Protection Division, C-75
U.S. Department of Transportation
400 Seventh Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20590

copy letter to them and airline (noting to airline who you've copied to). Make sure all letters are registered/certified so you have acknowledgement of receipt.

5. They give in.


Here's the money link for you :

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi.../telljudge.htm

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
emon,

Does the phrase "opportunity cost" cause you to reconsider your post? Oh and big companies pay it both ways.

J

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily, because it only matters if the lawyer would actually be doing something else - do airlines have that many claims against them? (Honest question, not rhetorical)

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wont defense with a lawyer cost more than 544?

[/ QUOTE ]


Big companies pay their lawyers a salary, not per hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

so? surely the salary could be broken down in per hour incrememts.

[/ QUOTE ]


But it is paid in the same amount regardless of how many hours the lawyer works (unless he gets paid for overtime, etc.) I am assuming the lawyer would be doing nothing with this time.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

At this point it seems that you've invested way more time and effort than you'll be able to recover from the airline. I would suggest just letting it go, especially if you're a 'balla', but if not, try contacting your credit card company and doing a charge-back. Normally you have like 90 days for this type of thing, just explain the situation to your bank, and whatever you paid to spirit will be given back to you, then it is on spirit to persue you. However if this is after 90 days I revert to my original suggestion and say let it go.

Re: What happens if I go to small claims against a giant airline?
 

Your claim's not preempted by federal law with exclusive federal jurisdiction is it??!! (yes, I need to be studying for my fed courts exam at this very moment.)

you should do it just b/c it'll be fun as hell. you get to be vindicated by the law! and as others have indicated--they will pay b/c they have property you can collect against. (most private party deadbeats don't, so that's why that judge said it's usually not worth anything.)