The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

Its almost beneath me to get this lazy and exploitive of previous threads, that are bringing some others close to blows, but with the Bellagio tournament going on I'm going to broach the obvious follow up question to the 8.3 sprinter.

A slightly above average guy, athletically speaking, 30 years old, wakes up one morning 35% bigger in all directions. Eight foot two inches, 200 kilos. He maintains his medicocre athletic ability (which breaks the laws of physics, I know, but don't go there). He can easily dunk on his tiptoes but his vertical leap still probably makes his outstretched hands only slightly higher than the best NBA players. Does he start?

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

No.
Based on the fact that he would not be fit enough, in terms of both anaerobic, short burst activities or in terms of having the stamina/endurance to last a full game. Neither would he have more than a rudimentary grasp of the other key skills involved in basketball - dribbling, passing etc....

Also, although I assume this was not what you were getting at, he may not know the rules of the game and is unlikely to be familiar with game tactics/strategy.

In short, the one positive characteristic - being very tall, would almost definately not compensate for the negatives in every other area.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

aside from the fact that he isnt actually a basketball player.........EDIT: i cant read

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

Not true. All people this tall are well below average athletically for both physics and medical reasons.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

Breaux,

Er, the tallest man alive right now is < 7'9.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

He'd be a superstar. Not only would he start but he'd be the most dominant player in the league and could probably take a last place team to the NBA Finals.

The parameters specified pretty much describe Shaq plus a foot! This guy would be way better than Shaq after a little practice and conditioning. He'd be just about unstoppable by any defender in the league on post plays.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

[ QUOTE ]
He'd be a superstar. Not only would he start but he'd be the most dominant player in the league and could probably take a last place team to the NBA Finals.

The parameters specified pretty much describe Shaq plus a foot! This guy would be way better than Shaq after a little practice and conditioning. He'd be just about unstoppable by any defender in the league on post plays.

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Man you are so underestimating Shaq's skills.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its almost beneath me to get this lazy and exploitive of previous threads, that are bringing some others close to blows, but with the Bellagio tournament going on I'm going to broach the obvious follow up question to the 8.3 sprinter.

A slightly above average guy, athletically speaking, 30 years old, wakes up one morning 35% bigger in all directions. Eight foot two inches, 200 kilos. He maintains his medicocre athletic ability (which breaks the laws of physics, I know, but don't go there). He can easily dunk on his tiptoes but his vertical leap still probably makes his outstretched hands only slightly higher than the best NBA players. Does he start?

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Can he shoot free throws?

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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Man you are so underestimating Shaq's skills.

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I think you're probably overestimating them. His biggest skill is that he's HUGE. From a purely athletic standpoint he's probably no more athletic than I was in College, just look at his FT %.

Many really big 7+ footers in the league are well below average in athleticism. Think of guys like Muresan, Bradley, and Bol. These guys were all starters at one point and they are all horrible athletes. Simply running up and down the court was a Herculian struggle for most of them.

Any 7 footer with actual decent athletic skills is a superstar. I'd say a guy like Mutumbo was no better than "average" if we're comparing him to a regular 6 foot guy who's in good shape. If you give a guy an extra FOOT on everyone else in the league AND he actually maintains reasonable athleticism he'd be an absolute monster. Just imagine how many rebounds he'd get plus you could just lob the ball to him in the paint everytime and let him try a short shot. Even if he misses he should get his own offensive rebound the majority of the time. Also, Imagine how open the other guys on the team would be when they inevitably triple teamed this guy when he's posting up.

You really need to think good and hard about what an EIGHT FOOT TWO 500 LB GUY could actually do with any sort of athletic skills.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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I think you're probably overestimating them. His biggest skill is that he's HUGE. From a purely athletic standpoint he's probably no more athletic than I was in College, just look at his FT %.

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Shaq's inability to shoot free throws has little to do with his athleticism.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

I was assuming he had/assigning him average skills, the only non-average characteristic being that he's funking enourmous.

In reality the extra height and reach would have to offer some kind of advantage, but I opted to ignore this based on his "maintaing his mediocre athletic ability".

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

what are the current NBA rules for standing in the paint.....3 seconds? 5 seconds?

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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From a purely athletic standpoint he's probably no more athletic than I was in College, just look at his FT %.

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there are plenty of ridiculous athletes who are bad free throw shooters.

but I agree with you, an 8 foot 2 guy with average athletic ability would be an incredible force in the league, if just for rebounding and defense. think Mutombo, but much much better.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

How do you square that with the fact the guys like Shawn Bradley and Manute Bol were not forces in the NBA and while they did start at times, they were usually outplayed by the opposing team's center?

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

The contention that Dikembe Mutombo was/is only as athletically capable as the average 6 footer and survived (and excelled) in the NBA solely on account of his height is patently absurd.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

This is a pretty trivial question. He'd be a superstar. If he could shoot 80 percent from the FT line, he'd be the best player who ever lived.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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How do you square that with the fact the guys like Shawn Bradley and Manute Bol were not forces in the NBA and while they did start at times, they were usually outplayed by the opposing team's center?

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They were not in the least bit athletic. This guy would be more solidly built, much more athletic, and HALF A FOOT TALLER. This question isn't even close.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

Ladies and Gentlemen...meet Manute Bol. At 7 feet 7 inches he towered over the competition. His career stats...uhmm, not so towering. 2.6 points, 4.2 rebounds, 0.3 assists and 3.3 blocks per game.

Depends on his ability, if you make a guy like Manute Bol 8'2...well he still probably isn't gonna be a lot better, maybe up his average to 5 points a game.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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35% bigger in all directions. Eight foot two inches, 200 kilos

[/ QUOTE ]The guy was 6', 325 lbs and an average athlete? Make him 325 when he's 8'2" and this is more sensible.

And to answer the original question, no, the guy doesn't start just on account of his size. This isn't to say that he couldn't make it in the league, because with a few years' work he could almost certainly be a starter. Make the guy 20 vice 30 and ask if he can ever start in the NBA and this is probably a clear yes. At 30, with the question being whether or not he can start now, the answer is "almost certainly not."

Those who insist that he would, please name a team and a center ahead of whom this random, "average" 8-footer would start.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

This would be like playing Nerf Hoops for the guy. He wouldn't even have to be on his tiptoes to dunk.

At the very least, having him in the paint would open up the rest of the floor to the rest of the team. Because he would be a rebound machine, his team would also be able to take more outside shots and get second chances.

Whether he starts, or not, is not relevant. He would definately play as many minutes as his conditioning would allow.

Bradely and Bol did not have proper mass to go with their height. They were easily moved around. When healthy, Mueresan was very effective. However, he was not often healthy.

The OP seems to imply that the proportions would remain, thus the player would have significant bulk. If that is the case, the player would be alomst impossible to move around.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

He probably wouldn't be able to shoot 80% from the line. Most players over 7 feet tall don't shoot that well from the line. You are also greatly underestimating the amount of athletic ability of Shaq and Mutombo. While neither are good shooters, in terms of agility, stamina, footwork, timing, strength, both are exceptional athletes. If you think size alone is the determining factor in basketball ability, I've got a list huge guys that could not compete at the NBA level. Take a look at the lifetime stats of Bradley and Muresan.

"his vertical leap still probably makes his outstretched hands only slightly higher than the best NBA players"

Not good enough

Take a look at the lifetime stats of Bradley

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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When healthy, Mueresan was very effective.

[/ QUOTE ]This is a wild exaggeration.
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The OP seems to imply that the proportions would remain, thus the player would have significant bulk. If that is the case, the player would be alomst impossible to move around.

[/ QUOTE ]As noted, the "proportions would remain" only if the guy was originally 6', 325 lbs. I know Sklansky said to ignore the laws of physics, but it's a little crazy to suggest that this guy would be even an "average" athlete. There are perhaps 200 of those 6', 325 lb "average athletes" on the entire planet, and they're called NFL linemen.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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His biggest skill is that he's HUGE. From a purely athletic standpoint he's probably no more athletic than I was in College, just look at his FT %.


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Of all skills required in all major sports, it is quite possible that "ability to shoot free throws" is the one least correlated with overall talent for the sport. It is BY FAR the most important skill that you can be awful at and still be a great player. (save for speciality jobs: like pitcher's hitting ability or kick returners tackling ability)

If you took all high school varsity, college, and NBA players and sorted them by free throw ability, the data would not look like a random distribution by bball level, but it would be close, particular if you looked at the 25th to 75th percentile.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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Ladies and Gentlemen...meet Manute Bol. At 7 feet 7 inches he towered over the competition. His career stats...uhmm, not so towering. 2.6 points, 4.2 rebounds, 0.3 assists and 3.3 blocks per game.

Depends on his ability, if you make a guy like Manute Bol 8'2...well he still probably isn't gonna be a lot better, maybe up his average to 5 points a game.

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Manute Bol did not have average athletic ability; he had well below average. Remember how akward and gawky he was? Since this guy is just an enlarged regular 6 foot tall guy, that's what he would look like. Comparing him to Bol is absurd...he would have half a foot and 150 pounds on Bol, AND he would have better athletic ability.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ladies and Gentlemen...meet Manute Bol. At 7 feet 7 inches he towered over the competition. His career stats...uhmm, not so towering. 2.6 points, 4.2 rebounds, 0.3 assists and 3.3 blocks per game.

Depends on his ability, if you make a guy like Manute Bol 8'2...well he still probably isn't gonna be a lot better, maybe up his average to 5 points a game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Manute Bol did not have average athletic ability; he had well below average. Remember how akward and gawky he was? Since this guy is just an enlarged regular 6 foot tall guy, that's what he would look like. Comparing him to Bol is absurd...he would have half a foot and 150 pounds on Bol, AND he would have better athletic ability.

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Manut Bol once killed a lion with a spear. Can your average 6-footer do that??

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

Muresan is closer to what we're looking for. I forgot he had that much mass, also I thought he was 7'6 or 7'5 not as tall as Bol. Website has him listed at 7'7 303 pounds. 6.3 rebounds per game, 8.8 points per game. Not exactly a dominating force...and much less production than the most centers playing right now.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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Muresan is closer to what we're looking for. I forgot he had that much mass, also I thought he was 7'6 or 7'5 not as tall as Bol. Website has him listed at 7'7 303 pounds.

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Our guy is 8'2 and 440 pounds. This is vastly different from 7'7 300. Shaq, at 7'3 350, is the best physical comparison to this guy that I can think of.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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Manut Bol once killed a lion with a spear. Can your average 6-footer do that??

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This is a good point that I failed to consider.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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I know Sklansky said to ignore the laws of physics, but it's a little crazy to suggest that this guy would be even an "average" athlete. There are perhaps 200 of those 6', 325 lb "average athletes" on the entire planet, and they're called NFL linemen.

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NFL linemen are mostly taller than 6 foot. And I think a lot of pretty good 6' tall, 260 pound HS tackles would fill out to 330 lbs by the time they're 30.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

I diagree because we know how Bradley, Bol, Muresean moved when they were that much taller than Shag. Also, everything I have ever seen has Shaq listed at 7'1. Shaq's ability to move will most likely be much more than our guy so it is probably closer to compare him to Muresean IMO.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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I diagree because we know how Bradley, Bol, Muresean moved when they were that much taller than Shag. Also, everything I have ever seen has Shaq listed at 7'1. Shaq's ability to move will most likely be much more than our guy so it is probably closer to compare him to Muresean IMO.

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No. According to OP, this guy will move just like he did when he was six feet tall. Do you think he moved like Muresean then?

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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[ QUOTE ]
When healthy, Mueresan was very effective.

[/ QUOTE ]This is a wild exaggeration.
[ QUOTE ]
The OP seems to imply that the proportions would remain, thus the player would have significant bulk. If that is the case, the player would be alomst impossible to move around.

[/ QUOTE ]As noted, the "proportions would remain" only if the guy was originally 6', 325 lbs. I know Sklansky said to ignore the laws of physics, but it's a little crazy to suggest that this guy would be even an "average" athlete. There are perhaps 200 of those 6', 325 lb "average athletes" on the entire planet, and they're called NFL linemen.

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I didn't see that the OP stated his weight. My "proportions statement" was only to present the idea that the player would not be a bean pole. Because he is to be 440 pounds, my point remains that he would not be pushed around like Bradley and Bol.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

The OP also said he has mediocre athletic ability. Shaq has awesome athletic ability. This guy better be able to shoot like Yao or he will be almost useless out there.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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The OP also said he has mediocre athletic ability. Shaq has awesome athletic ability. This guy better be able to shoot like Yao or he will be almost useless out there.

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He is over a FOOT TALLER than Shaq. He has more than 100 pounds on him. And he's coordinated and can shoot reasonably well. How does Shaq defend this guy one-on-one?

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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Manute Bol did not have average athletic ability; he had well below average. Remember how akward and gawky he was? Since this guy is just an enlarged regular 6 foot tall guy, that's what he would look like. Comparing him to Bol is absurd...he would have half a foot and 150 pounds on Bol, AND he would have better athletic ability.

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Having actually played basketball with and against Manute I can tell you that this isn't true. Bol had above average athletic ability, he ran fairly fast and moved laterally well and had excellent hand/eye coordination. He was an above average athlete, but his problem was how he was built. He had extremely long legs (think of a regular 6' guy, but make his feet his knees and double the lenght of his legs. Because of this he was at a disadvantage in the post, since his hips were so high he had no leverage when fighting for position and his frame prevented him from gaining any weight. His doctors told him not to weigh more than 240 lbs. Thus he was easily pushed around down low. Although not much of an offensive force, he was an excellent defensive player, who made it difficult for opponents to score (although he was weakest at defending his own man if said player was very strong and built thick down low, think Karl Malone for example). Shawn Bradley had the same problem, he had excellent offensive skills, although he much less heart than Bol and was easily intimidated. Shaq is an extraordinary athlete, he has a vertical leap of over 30" which is unheard of for guys his height. His foot speed, hand/eye coordination and lateral quickness are absolutely sick for someone of his size and strength. Unlike almost all other 7 footers Shaq is normally proportioned. His biggest problem is a complete lack of shooting touch due to a broken right wrist which never healed properly. The bones fused and prevent his wrist from having the normal range of motion, something that is essential to the act of shooting a basketball. BTW, the 8' guy starts for the worst 1/3 of the teams in the league (that need a center), but he does play for 6-8 years as a backup for almost any team. And it is unlikely that he is anything more than mediocre (think of a taller Mark Eaton)

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

Joel -- Doesn't the fact that he's a foot taller than Mark Eaton count for anything?

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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He is over a FOOT TALLER than Shaq. He has more than 100 pounds on him. And he's coordinated and can shoot reasonably well. How does Shaq defend this guy one-on-one?

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Easy, Shaq beats him to his spot and keeps him from posting too close down low. Shaq's vertical helps him to defend the guys shots. As far as rebounding goes Shaq has no problem boxing this guy out, but if 8 fter gets position Shaq is screwed. On O Shaq will beat him down the court every time forcing his smaller teamates to guard him, or Shaq can take him outside and just dribble around him forcing him to try to move laterally and pick up fouls.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

Yes, but the NBA is full of very tall scrubs. His primary advantage is freakish height, with decent H/E coordination he might be a shot blocker, but teams could neutralize this by having his man move to the perimetr bringing him away from the basket. Or they could fast break a lot if he doesn't run well. On O, he will need to have skills to be able to score, being extremely tall isn't enough. If he has the H/E coordination and heart and strength to battle under the boards he could be a superior rebounder, esp. on D. Offensive rebounding requires quickness, good hands and a great deal of hustle, nothing in the OP gives him these traits.

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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[ QUOTE ]
He is over a FOOT TALLER than Shaq. He has more than 100 pounds on him. And he's coordinated and can shoot reasonably well. How does Shaq defend this guy one-on-one?

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Easy, Shaq beats him to his spot and keeps him from posting too close down low. Shaq's vertical helps him to defend the guys shots. As far as rebounding goes Shaq has no problem boxing this guy out, but if 8 fter gets position Shaq is screwed. On O Shaq will beat him down the court every time forcing his smaller teamates to guard him, or Shaq can take him outside and just dribble around him forcing him to try to move laterally and pick up fouls.

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But our guy retains the shot of a slightly above average six footer. If he can hit a 12 foot jumper, isn't he going to be pretty much unstoppable?

Re: The Eight Foot Two Schlub
 

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But our guy retains the shot of a slightly above average six footer. If he can hit a 12 foot jumper, isn't he going to be pretty much unstoppable?

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If he can get his shot off yes, this would make him a taller Rik Smits.