400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $754.80
CO: $475
Button: $192
Hero: $386
BB: $160

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $20</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($80, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $72</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises all-in $140</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises all-in $455</font> Hero...

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

...folds as fast as possible.

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

why would you ever consider calling here?

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

cuz my hand looked cool.

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

[ QUOTE ]
cuz my hand looked cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha

i think that all the time

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

wow even I wouldn't call here.

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

you have enough fold equity to raise IMHO

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

More seriously, if you could be 100% sure you were against two sets without straight draws, you could call, but I do not think you can ever be certain of a thing like that.

edit : You also can call if you are a really vicious fellow with a strong read that your opponents will be on massive tilt if you draw out... I mean, you are probably a 4 to 1 underdog, but if you think one of your opponents will blow 4 or 5 buy-ins if you bust his TTJhQh, it can be fun.

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

Why the hell would you lead flop, esp. with the large bet size.

As played, obv. fold.

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

as everyone said its an easy fold. If a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] comes youre pretty much assumed to be drawing dead here. To me your flop bet isnt nearly as bad as your pfr. Why would you raise that being first to act after the flop. I understand the value of the hand, but you have to hit a pretty optimal flop in order to profit off a hand like that from that position.

As played the flop bet serves as a decent c-bet to fold out weak hands but w/ a raise and a rr its time to let go (unless you hate money of course [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

[ QUOTE ]
To me your flop bet isnt nearly as bad as your pfr. Why would you raise that being first to act after the flop. I understand the value of the hand, but you have to hit a pretty optimal flop in order to profit off a hand like that from that position.



[/ QUOTE ]

I could not disagree more with this... This is a fine hand to raise w/ in any position in a 5 handed game... You should be raising a wide variety of hands, and this is one of them...

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

As played this a clear fold. The better questions are:

1) Is this a hand to raise preflop out of position?
2) If we do raise preflop here do we lead out?
3) If we don't raise preflop do we lead out?

Of course the style of our opponents may affect each question ...

Question 1 seems a matter of style. I am not a fan of raising preflop OOP when I can't get anyone to fold. This is a great hand against multiple opponents though so I think its close.

IMO the answer to question 2 is a definite no. I only lead into 3 opponents on a board like this if I am ready to play for all my chips and I certainly am not.

Question 3 is different though and helps support the argument for just calling preflop (when the pot is smaller it gives you more options). Perhaps in this case a half-pot defensive/probe bet would work well - though you need to fold if there's any serious action ...

I am no expert so I would love any comments from the experts on these 3 questions.

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

[ QUOTE ]
As played this a clear fold. The better questions are:

1) Is this a hand to raise preflop out of position?
2) If we do raise preflop here do we lead out?
3) If we don't raise preflop do we lead out?

Of course the style of our opponents may affect each question ...

Question 1 seems a matter of style. I am not a fan of raising preflop OOP when I can't get anyone to fold. This is a great hand against multiple opponents though so I think its close.

IMO the answer to question 2 is a definite no. I only lead into 3 opponents on a board like this if I am ready to play for all my chips and I certainly am not.

Question 3 is different though and helps support the argument for just calling preflop (when the pot is smaller it gives you more options). Perhaps in this case a half-pot defensive/probe bet would work well - though you need to fold if there's any serious action ...

I am no expert so I would love any comments from the experts on these 3 questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if anyone is an "expert" around here, but I think an ideal strategy will sometimes raise this hand and sometimes lead this flop.

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

I raise the hand most of the time, and check the flop most of the time whether I have raised or not.

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

flop raise is standard. ya i probably could have c/f the flop.

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

i'm never leading this flop unless it's HU or sometimes 3-way w/ no f/draw.

as played it's a fold, and it's not even close.

Re: 400plo, i have a big bottom wrap, but the board sucks...
 

Four-way I will never lead this flop. Oops 2p2 vacation broken!