River full house
 

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 folds.

River: (5.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero ???

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

The 3-bet on the river made me a little nervous, but I figured villain would have raised KQ preflop. K9 was worrisome too. My best hope was that he hit a flush and I could take him as high as he wanted to go, but I didn't want to stretch my luck in case he had K9 or KQ.

Also, was I a little loose PF?

Re: River full house
 

I think this is a fold preflop. There needs to be more callers to make suited Ks profitable.

Flop bet is ok, seeing as we have top pair and were checked to.

Turn bet is good too. That 2nd K reduces the chance that someone else has that other K.

I am definately capping this river (is Stars uncapped on river heads up?). You don't have the nuts, but I'm sure he doesn't put you on K2.

Re: River full house
 

Fold preflop.

As played cap the river.

Re: River full house
 

"Also, was I a little loose PF?" I would definitely say so! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If I have a hard time deciding whether to play a hand or not because that 9To on the Button just look too pretty, I ask myself what flop I would like. And if the answer to that seems too much like Wonderland, I fold.
What flop would you like with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?
Besides K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

Re: River full house
 

This is 22 or a flush much more often than K9 or KQ. It's an interesting question just how far you should go with no cap but with a 4 or 5 bet cap I'm reraising.

Re: River full house
 

I was somewhat kidding about questioning if I was loose PF, I can't even find another K2s in my (somewhat small) PT database that I didn't fold. Not quite sure why I called this one, but my attention's focused on the river this hand.

Thanks for the advice.

Re: River full house
 

im in the fold pf camp, wait for a couple more limpers.

def cap river.

if it is unlimited raises when HU on river, and he goes 5-bets, i think i would give it one more raise then call.

Re: River full house
 

*grunch*

Given the way he played i don't see any reason to put him on KQ or K9. Everthing indicates a flush on the river. I would try to extract as much money as possible here.

*edit*
Just because this is a fold pre-flop, don't be afraid to put some money in the pot as your hand improve.

Re: River full house
 

fold preflop. the rest of the hand is fine, except cap the river!! you have a lovely disguised boat. this is runner runner flush, a straight, trip kings, or maybe an underboat way more than it is something you're beat by.

Re: River full house
 

welcome to the forums

[ QUOTE ]
I was somewhat kidding about questioning if I was loose PF, I can't even find another K2s in my (somewhat small) PT database that I didn't fold. Not quite sure why I called this one, but my attention's focused on the river this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are you focusing on the river here? as others have posted, the preflop is not good but the rest of perfectly fine and dandy.

Capping seems like a no brainer to me.....unless you have a read to that explictly indicates otherwise. Im sensing that you got a nice read from this hand [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

what im getting at is that you are better off focusing on THE TYPE of hands that occur often and not hands where you are concerned with capping a river. This sort of river decision (to cap or not to cap) just doesnt come up often enough to significantly affect your winrate IMHO.

Re: River full house
 

[ QUOTE ]
what im getting at is that you are better off focusing on THE TYPE of hands that occur often and not hands where you are concerned with capping a river. This sort of river decision (to cap or not to cap) just doesnt come up often enough to significantly affect your winrate IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. Listen to Aussie.

Re: River full house
 

I disagree completely. Reading hands is a very important general skill to have, and this hand is as good as any to talk about it.

Re: River full house
 

I get your point, Xhad. And I of course agree that hand reading is important.

All I'm saying is hands where you cap vs. don't cap the river after runner-runnering a boat don't come up that often, and that, when you're just getting started, it's more important to focus on difficult situations that come up frequently. These impact your winrate a lot more than whether or not you cap the river in this situation.

Now, I know you'll say that whether or not you learn hand-reading also impacts your winrate, and you'll be completely right. So let me just agree with you about that, and add that that I also think that learning to recognize spots that give you persistent trouble is also important. IMO, this decision isn't really one of them.

Re: River full house
 

Hey gang, here's a n00b's perspective: Cap the river.

I think villain has 9x spades in his hand. If he had deuces, he played horribly. It looks to me like he got a piece of the flop, then hoped for something good to happen. I think him having the case K is very unlikey.

Re: River full house
 

I think learning general concepts is a lot more important than trying to categorize (postflop) situations and then come up with a preselected response for different categories. In other words, I don't agree with trying to find a "common hand" because even if we can agree on what that is, there's enough variation between them that they're still really just individual hands.

No, it's not often you're thinking about capping the river with the 3rd nuts HU. But it is common that you need to try to put your opponent on a range and consider a value bet.

Re: River full house
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think learning general concepts is a lot more important than trying to categorize (postflop) situations and then come up with a preselected response for different categories. In other words, I don't agree with trying to find a "common hand" because even if we can agree on what that is, there's enough variation between them that they're still really just individual hands.

No, it's not often you're thinking about capping the river with the 3rd nuts HU. But it is common that you need to try to put your opponent on a range and consider a value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely, Xhad. There are only individual hands that call for individual responses. I like Phil Gordon's way of putting this from Little Green Book: "poker is a game of situations."

My point isn't that we should try to categorize these situations and come up with generic answers. My point is that, for someone starting out in hold 'em, the consistent leaks aren't going to be from hands like this one, and that winrate can be improved more by analyzing those hands that pose persistent problems.

Surely you'll agree that there is such a thing as frequency of a situation: i.e. is OP frequently making incorrect c-bets on the flop? is OP playing too loosely preflop? You have to make those kinds of decisions often. You don't have to decide whether or not to cap the runner-runnered 3rd nuts HU on the river often at all.

Edited to add that I realize Aussie's post makes it look like the objective is to find a hand "type." I think a better expression might be "frequency of decision making." What I'm trying to say is essentially the same point that Ed Miller makes in SSHE about how even if you folded all of your royal flushes you could still be a winning player, but if you don't learn good preflop discipline, you can't.