Turn decision, action pot
 

Commerce 20/40. Good game. The CO is a new player who just sat down and posted his 4 chips.

A fishy EP limps, I limp in MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO-poster checks, button limps, SB folds, BB checks.

5 to the flop. It comes down 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Checked to me, I bet. CO raises, button cold-calls, button folds, EP cold-calls, I 3-bet, CO caps it, button cold-calls 2 more, EP finally folds.

3 to the turn. Turn is a T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Hrmmmm.... Bet or check?

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

If you bet, CO is more than likely going to raise shutting out button. Your Ts are like never best. How is this anything but a check/call?

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you bet, CO is more than likely going to raise shutting out button. Your Ts are like never best. How is this anything but a check/call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Although in your opinion does the button lay down a bigger flush draw than yours for two bets on the turn? If so (I am just getting back to playing...lol) then would it make sense to fire out here? If the CO flopped two pair here you have like 9-10 outs. If he flopped a set your drawing a little slimmer. I guess it's close between check/call and bet and call. Am I like way out in left field here?

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

Button is almost never folding a fd here b/c the pot is too big. Its 11 bb on the turn and if you bet and it gets raised button is looking @ 7:1 to call which is pretty easy considering he knows that his draw is still live as long as the board doesn't pair on the river.

It looks very likely that CO flopped 2 pair or better and we are likely behind on the turn. Eliminating button won't change much since all your outs are likely clean. I vote for check call the turn. Check call the river if you improve to 2 pair or trips. Check raise or donk the river depending on your read if you hit your flush

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

Bet/call. Wouldn't you kick yourself if it's checked around?

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

Check. You're still behind.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

how old is the co? and what race is he? and does he look like an internet player?

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

there is no reason to bet this, seeing as the BB will call the button's one bet, along with the fact that you are almost never ahead in this spot.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

Are you sure that the CO is not raising with a fd? I lean toward betting against unpredictable (new is the same) opponents, it is surprising to see how many will raise like this with just TP on this board. I think you have too many outs to check and call, get that other player out.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

These guys tend to be a bit passive. Therefore, you are almost always behind. You can't protect yout hand by betting if you are ahead. This one doesn't seem close.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bet/call. Wouldn't you kick yourself if it's checked around?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with this. Also if we check it might be close to a checkraise if we keep the 3rd guy in. My guess is our equity is great against everything but a set (3 ways)

-DeathDonkey

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Commerce 20/40. Good game. The CO is a new player who just sat down and posted his 4 chips.

A fishy EP limps, I limp in MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO-poster checks, button limps, SB folds, BB checks.

5 to the flop. It comes down 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Checked to me, I bet. CO raises, button cold-calls, button folds, EP cold-calls, I 3-bet, CO caps it, button cold-calls 2 more, EP finally folds.

3 to the turn. Turn is a T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Hrmmmm.... Bet or check?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet. Grimace if it's two more back to you or something but... well, it's limit hold'em and blah blah blah big pot top pair might be good don't check.

--Nate

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
These guys tend to be a bit passive. Therefore, you are almost always behind. You can't protect yout hand by betting if you are ahead. This one doesn't seem close.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. In a live game I check.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

I would raise preflop, but once I didn't I just c/c here, it's borderline impossible for your hand to be best unless CO has A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]X[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

i raise pf most all of the time. i like the flop play. i would probably check the turn. if we could assume we aren't against a set with CO, based on button's play i think an argument could be made for betting.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

I don't think it matters either way weather there is a raise PF or not, but this may help define the CO's hand a bit better. The thing is that he has just posted, meaning that he could be playing any two cards. I wouldn't be surprised to see an open-ender here.

Betting may also be good because may the SB will have a Kx heart and lay it down, thinking one of you has the ace. I just can't bring myself to give CO any good hand yet.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Betting may also be good because may the SB will have a Kx heart and lay it down, thinking one of you has the ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. This is Commerce 20/40.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

I think it really depends on your read on CO. Is he someone that bets draws? He could have AXs very easily. And button could have 67s. If CO has a set you're in a tough place, but is he the type to cap the flop with a set, or would he try to be cute with it? I think he's betting a draw (or A8), and now you're beating him.

Is button playing a strong draw straight forward, or slowplaying a set? Depends on your read on this guy.

I think your winning, so bet.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

You are very likely behind the COs crappy 2 pair or a set as your typical Comm-20 players are going to be passive. Check.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Bet/call. Wouldn't you kick yourself if it's checked around?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with this. Also if we check it might be close to a checkraise if we keep the 3rd guy in. My guess is our equity is great against everything but a set (3 ways)

[/ QUOTE ]

Your equity is good enough to c/r 3-way but betting here in a 60+ game sounds much better than this 20 game.

river action
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are very likely behind the COs crappy 2 pair or a set as your typical Comm-20 players are going to be passive. Check.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my thinking, so I checked. It checked around. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

The river was an offsuit J. I bet, intending to fold to a raise. (I think this is pretty standard, but I'm just finishing the action of the hand). I guess the check-thru on the turn had me second-guessing whether I should have bet.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
how old is the co? and what race is he? and does he look like an internet player?

[/ QUOTE ]

you are awesome.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

Why not raise pf?

Re: river action
 

[ QUOTE ]


The river was an offsuit J. I bet, intending to fold to a raise. (I think this is pretty standard, but I'm just finishing the action of the hand). I guess the check-thru on the turn had me second-guessing whether I should have bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah, results, results...given your descriptions, the action, and typical game set of the Com-20 (passive), your check if fine.

Re: river action
 

[ QUOTE ]
This was my thinking, so I checked. It checked around.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/PIX/FR/Homer_Doh.jpg

Re: river action
 

First off, I would have definitely raised preflop. There are basically three blinds with the poster in, and you don't want to let two of them get their garbage to the flop for free.

I'd bet the turn as well. I've never played at the Commerce, but it seems like there are a ton of hands that would want to take a free card on the turn, and there are also some one-pair hands that might take a free showdown if you c/c the turn. If you do get raised by two pair, you're not losing much anyway, since you still likely have 14 outs.

Re: river action
 

If you think someone might take a free card, aren't you assuming their possible holdings include the A-high or K-high flush draws? If so, how can I have 14 outs?

I think people may be relying too heavily on my draw; I'm starting to think, on the turn here, that I don't want to make my flush anymore and the black T may have bailed me out.

Re: river action
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you do get raised by two pair, you're not losing much anyway, since you still likely have 14 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm talking about turn play here, and saying if you are up against two pair and he raises you, you're not losing much anyway since you have 14 outs in that scenario. Obviously, the hands that he raises you are different than the ones he checks behind with. When he has a draw, you don't have to worry about outs since you're currently in the lead with your pair of tens.

Re: Turn decision, action pot
 

lol... are you kidding? if i pay 4 bets on flop, i'm not folding turn cuz i suspect my draw to 2nd nuts is no good....