rongsht
 

I've finally reached a point where I'm lost. I've fealt lost for quite a while but haven't been truly lost. Now I'm there.

I keep blowing through more and more $ and it just doesn't change. I go grind 10/20 for a while, feel very sharp and go play 'big' which is usually like 30/60 and just blow. Sometimes I'll see a 50/100 or a 100/200 game and I'll sit there and it's the same thing. No shot.

I have plenty of money in the bank but my online money is like 12k. 12 freaking k. That's a lot of money I guess, but for a 'bankroll' that's pathetic for a player with the success I've had. I don't have all my hands in one place, but i'm pretty sure my streak is over 1500bb

I've put a good amount of effort into NL of which I'm down 20 buyins lifetime on non-pacific. If you include that I'm up but that doesn't count in my oppinion.

I've been playing mostly 100 nl with some 200 and my luck there just blows super hard. I know I don't play super good or anything, but I've seen enough hands to know my luck is really bad. There, it's not the money I care about as I'm more just trying to learn it so I can play bigger but it hurts your confidence so much when it goes like that time after time. I know most people wont believe my luck there is bad and that's fine. I know it is.

Now with limit, I've had a number of players who I respect well tell me I'm playing very tough confident poker. I sit down and still almost always feel like the best player or the 2nd best mb. I did some reflection and all that and I realised over a good part of my 'downswing' I was folding too much. Now I think I'm calling down a little too much. I need to find that happy medium.

I've posted 3 losing months in a row and am down maybe 10k or so so far in december. Those numbers aren't that important to me. I just want to get back on the right track and winning again. It feels like forever.

I've reached the 'bottom'...and it's so wonderful that I have plenty of 'non-bankroll' money and I'm good to go for 'regular life' and assuming something ridiculous doesn't happen I'll be getting a nice check back from my quarterly tax payments I've been paying because I've made less money this year.

Don't pity me too much, I'm sitting in colorado on a ski trip. It's just poker. It's not working.

I tried a break. That helped a little, and I've been in a much better place in general since, but just the last few days I feel my self slipping again.

I'm sure there are a handful of people that are at least slightly happy inside because they feel as though i've had it easier than most should, and that's fine. Maybe it is a building block for me. I don't know. If I've handled this as well as I feel I have it makes me confident that I can get through a lot in life.

I just don't know where to go from here. I have no problem 'grinding'. I've been playing mostly 10/20 for months and maybe a thousand 5/10 hands when I can't find 'good' 10/20 games. I make 'rules' where I can only play 10/20 or whatever and I've stuck to them but then i'm feeling good and it just goes down hill.

Yes, the games aren't what they used to be, and they're still not particularily great, but I see some really pathetic play alllllll the time and my game selection is solid.

I mean seriosuly, i'd play 2/4 if it'd get me back on track. It jsut doesn't make sense that i'd have to go that low.

Or should I just say screw limit for awhile and put more an dmore time into NL.


If you've played with me and have comments on my play I would LOVE to hear them positive or negative, especially negative. I want to improve. I have no shame.

Anyone have a 12k -> 50k bankroll plan for me? I'll stick to it, honest.

Re: rongsht
 

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: rongsht
 

sounds like ur ready for 50/100 PLO! with a top off!

Re: rongsht
 

dayamn [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

serious suggestion: lol donkaments. possibly limitaments. you are good enough for sure, it just might take a while (esp. in limit since there just aren't many big buyin donkaments.)

Re: rongsht
 

i raised in mpish and you called in the sb with 44. 1/2 structure. is that normal?

anyway, my advice is to make sure there are 2 bad players per table you play and dont play more than 4.

Re: rongsht
 

btw I think you should realise that the run you are on is likely due to bad play as well as bad luck. That's a key first step.

Re: rongsht
 

[ QUOTE ]
i raised in mpish and you called in the sb with 44. 1/2 structure. is that normal?

anyway, my advice is to make sure there are 2 bad players per table you play and dont play more than 4.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure that was me? cause that's not something i EVER do and I don't recal misclicking that one either. That's weird. Huh. Not sure what to say, but no, that's not normal.

Yeah I've been playing lots of just 4 tables and it's been helping a TON. Very good advice.

Re: rongsht
 

bk,

NL is def the way to go. Have you considered hiring a NL coach? There are a lot of great guys for this on 2p2 and if nothing else they can help with your confidence immensely.

Sincerely,
a limidonk to NL convert

Re: rongsht
 

Ye NL is worth trying. OR something low variance and big edge like L08 or PL08.

Re: rongsht
 

this makes me incredibly sad because when I was learning lhe like 2.5~ years ago, you were the guy on 2+2 who I wanted to be [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I know you haven't had much luck with NL, but I struggled as a slightly above breakeven LHE player (after withdrawing expenses) this year, and built my br up to around 10k from rakeback. Then, I took a leap and switched to NL while still depending upon poker income a lot. This is what I did, and it's gotten me pretty much what you're asking for, while learning NL.

12k->14k: 6-8 table 100nl, get a ton of hands in to get used to NL in general. You can play an absolute [censored] of tables at this level because the opposition is absolutely godawful. Mix in 200nl after a while. I have no doubt that you can skip this step. I probably could have, but adjusting to NL after playing only lhe for 2 years was easier this way.

14k->18k 400nl cutting it to 4 tables
18k->50k 600nl
50k+ 1knl

strategy in bbv but dude you are good at poker, let us gogogo

Re: rongsht
 

[ QUOTE ]
bk,

NL is def the way to go. Have you considered hiring a NL coach? There are a lot of great guys for this on 2p2 and if nothing else they can help with your confidence immensely.

Sincerely,
a limidonk to NL convert

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a friend here in mn who is a top nl player who has offered nl help and a few other resources I think I might just tap. It's too bad I can't make it out to colorado to spend some time with james282 for a bit but by the time I do I bet i'll be more ready for his thoughts.

I've really put lots of effort into it, I just can't control the cards and it's been very frustrating.

Re: rongsht
 

Re: rongsht
 

Keep your head up dude. I remember playing limit with you on Pacific back in the day a couple years ago. I feel for you. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: rongsht
 

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

wow, that sucks, hang in there, it's scary to see this type of stuff from a top notch player

Re: rongsht
 

I know exactly how it goes BK. Other than one good 5 figure month in July and a 4 figure month in August, it's lose, lose, lose. Every big pot is pushed to someone else. Every turn card is an ace when I have a big pair. It just never [censored] ends. I don't know what to tell you. I try limit, no limit, 5/10, 25/50. I play against the worst players I can remember in 4 years of online poker and they still beat me. I win $500 and I want to quit for the night just so I can book a winning session despite the fact that I know this is a completely retarded thought. I just keep thinking it will turn, my luck will change, but it never does.

Re: rongsht
 

"Anyone have a 12k -> 50k bankroll plan for me? I'll stick to it, honest."

Play 1/2 NL for a week or two, get a coach, play 2/4 NL for 6 weeks. Not too hard and low variance, I was beating 2/4 pretty good with some pretty glaring leaks. When you patch them, it's sick how good you can get at this NL thing.

But I hate limit and have never played it and am sorry that you like it or whatever.

Re: rongsht
 

bk,

I may have meet you months ago (on the PPM cruise), but at hte time you got more respect and envy from me more than any other player. Sometimes you previous skill level may seem like a pipe dream, but I assure you it is not.

Re: rongsht
 

[ QUOTE ]
bk,

I may have meet you months ago (on the PPM cruise), but at hte time you got more respect and envy from me more than any other player. Sometimes you previous skill level may seem like a pipe dream, but I assure you it is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

That means a lot to me. Thank you for the kind words.

Re: rongsht
 

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: rongsht
 

bk, you 3 bet me with 44 in the sb in that 1-2 live game even though we were 5-6 handed it was too loose against me oop. so clearly you have lost 1500bbs thanks to a fascination w/ 44. so no more 44.

hope that helps,.
mike

Re: rongsht
 

rav poker winn0r! Good thing our household is on a combined 2.5k bb losing streak... we are some sort of good.

Re: rongsht
 

[ QUOTE ]
bk, you 3 bet me with 44 in the sb in that 1-2 live game even though we were 5-6 handed it was too loose against me oop. so clearly you have lost 1500bbs thanks to a fascination w/ 44. so no more 44.

hope that helps,.
mike

[/ QUOTE ]

I pwn you.

Re: rongsht
 

"I pwn you."

why? cause i checked the river w/ middle pair or whatever?

Re: rongsht
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I pwn you."

why? cause i checked the river w/ middle pair or whatever?

[/ QUOTE ]

cause it was the appropriate bbv response.

I don't even remember the hand in question.

Re: rongsht
 

Have you switched sites any during your downswing? It always seems to help me. I just spent my last 12,000 hands at Eurolinx barely above breakeven. Then I switched to a new site tonight to chase a bonus and won 3 buyins in 150 hands. Granted the players are even worse at this new site, but a change of scenery always helps me at least mentally.

Also, CTS might be a good NL coach for you after the sick PT stats he posted in another thread a couple days ago [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: rongsht
 

Where can I solicit coaching??

Re: rongsht
 

How is this at all possible?? Someone who has made 7 figures from online poker is on a 1500BB downswing at 10/20??

Re: rongsht
 

[ QUOTE ]
How is this at all possible?? Someone who has made 7 figures from online poker is on a 1500BB downswing at 10/20??

[/ QUOTE ]

heh, sick. yes. it's unreal but I have to accept it.

Re: rongsht
 

BK,
How long are you on your ski trip for in Colorado? Where are you skiing? I'm in Boulder and planning on going up within a few days.

Re: rongsht
 

and im left wondering... wtf is rongsht?

Re: rongsht
 

[ QUOTE ]
and im left wondering... wtf is rongsht?

[/ QUOTE ]

comes from the show lost which my n00b friends and I call rongsht.

Re: rongsht
 

ugh. i kind of know what you're going through. from summer to the end of october, i was crushing the low limits, and made 8k in august, then 10k in september. i wasn't a big winner, but i was 13 tabling and getting tons of hands in and just making sick money.

fast forward 3 months later: i'm right now in a 20+ buyin downswing totaling 8k. its tough for me, especially when i have a big rent deposit for a new place coming up (about 8kish i think).

it's depressing, but part of it was i switched from full ring to 6 max. lately i've cut down on the number of tables, first 2 tabling and now moving up to 4. i'm also switching to wpex to hopefully make some money if if i breakeven there or whatnot.

bottom line: try to mix it up and really examine your game. if you want to go the limit route, have other guys that you respect sweat you. i've been really trying to be honest with myself and make sure every decision is one that i wouldn't be embarrassed to show a friend. it may not help me run better, but at the very least i have peace of mind knowing i'm doing everything i can to succeed.

buckle down, keep playing, and try to keep your head up. it'll turn around for you if you have half the talent i think you do.

Re: rongsht
 

[ QUOTE ]
BK,
How long are you on your ski trip for in Colorado? Where are you skiing? I'm in Boulder and planning on going up within a few days.

[/ QUOTE ]

just got here today. here til friday. staying in beaver creek mostly skiing at vail.

Re: rongsht
 

You seem to play well when I see you. You sit in good games and play the right hands. I think you are a lot less laggy these days then back in the day so I personally am not as terrified to play with you as I was but your new game probably does better against the fish and with lower variance - at least it should.

Seems like yesterday you walked into Bellagio, saw that 800/1600 and decided you were just going to have to play and I somehow managed to get a small piece of you and was thrilled to get it. The guy that sat and beat that game didn't just go away, we all know what you are capable of. Hang in there.

-DeathDonkey

Re: rongsht
 

bk,

Don't play for the rest of this year. Hang out with your friends and family and enjoy yourself over Christmas.

Sounds like you've already got this part down but I just wanted to reiterate the importance of it.

Re: rongsht
 

I have played with you on Pacific between 6-15 months ago and you were not THAT good at least shorthanded, sorry. Most of your winnings came from the time when retarded monkey was able to beat the biggest games in softest sites like Pacific in the net. Nowadays normal 1/2 game is way tougher than 30/60 was back then.

I think you wanted honest answers, no hard feelings at all, respect.

Re: rongsht
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have played with you on Pacific between 6-12 months ago and you were not that good, sorry (5-6 handed). Most of your wins came from the time when retarded monkey was able to beat the biggest games in softest sites like Pacific in the net. Nowadays normal 1/2 game is way tougher than 30/60 was back then.

[/ QUOTE ]

PWNED

Re: rongsht
 

yes poker is about luck

I heard you also play lots of bj, funny how you left that out of your story

Re: rongsht
 

BK -

I don't know if my words will mean more or less than anybody elses. I know that a lot of people don't believe I've lost over 2500 bets (basically straight) at LHE online. And, I fully acknowledge that I played pretty lousy poker for about 6 weeks (but I played very little during that stretch), and lost about 300-500 of those bets.

But I also know that I was a damn good player, and other players here on 2+2 added a full BB/100h to their winrate after discussing poker with me. That's no BS. This is not to say that I'm God's give to LHE or anything, just that I'm good enough to beat the games, and I lost 2500BB.

The funny thing is, I'm running over live games. I just can't win online. I'm so far away from having 10s of K's online, that it seems unrealistic. I don't even want it. I mess around a bit and play 3-6 or 5-10 or horse or TD or something when I'm on the phone or watching TV. And when I get 2k in there I play 10-20 again, just to see if I can win. And I lose lose lose lose lose lose lose. 3 days ago, I played 219 hands of 6max 10-20, and won 21 of them. Today I played 322 hnads, and won 28. Three days ago I played 63 and won zero. Zip. All of these include blind steals, SB folding to my BB HU, etc.

But this isn't about how bad I'm running, cuz I'm not really losing any money anymore. I go and play live, and the game seems so clear. Value bets are so obvious, knowing when 2nd pair is no good is easy, bluffing works much more regular because you know what spots to pick, etc.

I don't want to say that my (or your) game isn't suited to online. I STILL have the highest winrate at party 30/60 of anybody I know with 200k hands or more. But I cannot beat the games anymore.

If you can't, or, more accurately, aren't, play live. See if that helps your bottom line. See if that helps your sanity. See if that helps your bankroll.

When you play online, play small NL or play horse so that you can play 300-600 live mixed without fear. Play triple draw. Just don't play limit holdem for a bit, at least online.

Just hang.

Josh

Re: rongsht
 

bk, I heavily advise sticking with NL. I'm personally sooo much happier with poker since switching. Yes, the fact I'm running hot whilst learning helps. However, NL is where the games are at now, there's much less long-term variance, winrates are higher, you suffer less horrific beats, learning something new keeps you fresh, etc, etc.

Put your whole december into reading MSNL forum, just play NL200 or 400 for now (don't play any limit), and I can almost gaurantee you will have a decent january.