Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

CAZ 40-80. The game is slowly breaking and we're four-handed. The main villain in this hand plays well, I think, and claims to play big games online. He's been caught bluffing and all that and has that amusing glazed-over look of a guy acclimated to tough online games but sitting in a dream live game.

My image is, I think, that of a slightly erratic but mostly in-line player who is up way past his bedtime because the game is good and he's enjoying the cameraderie. I've been caught doing some strange things but not recently.

Villain opens the cutoff, which he's begun doing very frequently. I call in the SB with Ks 2s and the BB surprisingly folds.

Flop 9d 9h 7d. I checkraise and he calls.

Turn 7h. I bet and he calls.

River 4c. I bet, he raises, I threebet.

--Nate

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

I understand the thinking behind the river three bet, because anything other than a 9 or 7 is folding. Having said that, I must say, you sprayed a LOT of chips on a hand I would have mucked preflop, then again on the flop, then probably again on the turn, and so on, and so on...

edit - I would also think that betting the river is a mistake most of the time. The villian called a double paired board on the turn. It means he's either calling you down with a better hand, planning to raise the river because he had something all along, or planning to bluff you off on the river. I don't think you'll see too many folds on the river from a good player after calling the turn.

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

Nate, I feel like whenever I do this (especially to someone who plays a lot of online shorthanded--i.e. never folds), I get shown Aces. Especially after a cr on that flop.

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nate, I feel like whenever I do this (especially to someone who plays a lot of online shorthanded--i.e. never folds), I get shown Aces. Especially after a cr on that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave --

Interesting. Thanks.

Everyone --

I'm pretty sure I played this hand terribly, but beyond that fact I'd love to hear anything anyone has to say about how people behave on boards like this one in shorthanded situations. I'm so used to knowing my individual opponents and making real-time reads that I fear I'm completely out of touch with the more formal aspects of these sorts of situations.

--Nate

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

I cant picture anyone calling that turn and folding the river with an ace or better.

It's closer to a value bet than it is a bluff.

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

outstanding. i like.

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

You need this to work around 20% of the time to be profitable (if I calculate right that there's 9.5BB and you are putting in 2BB more).

Not knowing the villain I have no idea whether you are close enough to try [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Online this never works unless villain was also bluffing. I guess there is a chance he's just got an Ace and figures you haven't - or called with a counterfeited small pair. I won a river pot with Ace high (villain had King high) on a two-pair board yesterday - he check-called with it!

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

You are never winning here. No pairs are raising the river, even AA, and if they raised, they are still calling a 3-bet with their 7. Spew.

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

Results:

He fourbet. I folded. I'm pretty sure this laydown was correct.

--Nate

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

[ QUOTE ]
outstanding. i like.

[/ QUOTE ]

REALLY? I think maybe sometimes we fold out an ace but the rest of the time he probably isn't folding anything.

Anyone care to comment on pf? I don't know if im cc'ing here like this.

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
outstanding. i like.

[/ QUOTE ]

REALLY? I think maybe sometimes we fold out an ace but the rest of the time he probably isn't folding anything.

Anyone care to comment on pf? I don't know if im cc'ing here like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Danzasmack --

Yeah, a few people have said that pf is bad. I'd usually fold but this time I thought his range was extra-wide so I made a marginal call.

--Nate

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

Would you consider 3-betting over a cold call? I'm guessing by your post you knew something about the BB.

Re: Bet-bet-bet. Oops. Eh, threebet.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would you consider 3-betting over a cold call? I'm guessing by your post you knew something about the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB was the mark in the game. Usually you aren't looking for action with K2s but it's always best to play with him. He's also going to call three with about everything he's going to call two with. Sometimes he'll go bonkers with four-deuce preflop; sometimes he'll fold reasonable aces for no reason. He's tricky like that.

--Nate

Edit: I realize I didn't quite answer your question. Everything I said might be a better argument for folding than for calling. No, I didn't consider three-betting; I probably should have; it's probably wrong, though, because I'm too likely to play a three-handed three-bet flop out of position with K2s. I'm under the impression that playing a three-handed flop for a single raise with K2s and a weak player keeping the raiser more honest (and making bad decisions) is an OK if marginal spot.