Talladega Nights
 

23/12/2 openraises on the button for about the 3rd time since i sat down(i've folded all previous hands), i 3bet 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] out of the sb, tight bb folds, button caps, i call.

Flop(9sb): K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

i check, he bets, i raise, he 3bets, i cap, he calls.

Turn(8.5bb): A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

i bet, he raises, i 3bet, he caps, i call.

River(16.5bb): A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

i...

Re: Talladega Nights
 

check and call expecting to be beat? but occasionally see a flush with the Qs

Re: Talladega Nights
 

Since he capped the turn and I can't fold: check/call.

Or were you looking for suggestions of which string of expletives would be best at this point? I have been expanding my collection lately and could help you out. On this one I would suggest some in Italian.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

What hand can you beat that he would realistically be playing at this point? Can't beat A anything, K's, Q's, JT or any 2 spades.. Your basically hoping he has KQ or is just bluffing...
Check and make a crying call on the river with the huge pot odds..

Re: Talladega Nights
 

he has a fullhouse, he does beat two spades, he also beats JT [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Talladega Nights
 

so given the hand up to the turn, what range would he cap? what % of that range did the river improve?

Re: Talladega Nights
 

Obviously the river improved AK and AQ. In any other case you were behind. Given that he capped these are definitely an option, as are KK and QQ which you were already behind. He might have KQ but I don't see much else which he would have been capping on the flop and turn...I imagine he had AK. Unless he had something suited with the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], that is vaguely possible but I don't know if he caps flop with it. Still you are ahead enough to call the river.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

fwiw, this was a button openraise and a sb resteal. keep the scenario in mind. it should open up the pf ranges a bit anyway.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

If this guy caps light preflop, I guess I'd bet call. Otherwise, check call.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

[ QUOTE ]
If this guy caps light preflop, I guess I'd bet call. Otherwise, check call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a pretty easy check/call. Bet/calling is bad because the second bet is better full houses if the guy is competent whereas he would've bet the worse hands anyways if you check to him.

It just seems much more likely that he has a higher boat than Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or whatever. QQ/AA/KK, even AK or AQ can be a large part of his range here.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

meh.

Check call. Really feels like you're beat here. I think the best you can hope for is KQ or a flush(but both seem rather unlikely).

Re: Talladega Nights
 

....puke and then check/call. Oh and fold preflop.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

can anyone give me one logical hand he would play this way? is he ever capping QJs PF versus a tight SB 3bettor? what the hell hand do i beat here that he would bet on the river when he knows i'm at least calling?

Re: Talladega Nights
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

keep your little girl comments to yourself. if Harv can cap A8o out of the BB i can at least 3bet a PP out of the SB. you really think this is a c/c too, huh?

Re: Talladega Nights
 

[ QUOTE ]
23/12/2 openraises on the button for about the 3rd time since i sat down(i've folded all previous hands), i 3bet 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] out of the sb, tight bb folds, button caps, i call.

Flop(9sb): K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

i check, he bets, i raise, he 3bets, i cap, he calls.

Turn(8.5bb): A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

i bet, he raises, i 3bet, he caps, i call.

River(16.5bb): A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

i...

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't know how often i would do it in this situation, but at a point in time i ran close to him statistically(i had about 1900 hands mined on villain)and so i put myself in his shoes: i thought about MY pf capping range in that spot, the board texture, my tight table image, the action that ensued on subsequent streets and i really saw no logical hand i could beat. i checked, he bet and i folded. i don't know if it was good or bad in the long run but he showed two red kings when i folded. it was a huge pot. for one bet HU i can't do that often, but the flow of the situation just took me there.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

Then it was a good laydown. Just remember none of us are in the 'flow of the situation', we see a big pot and you having a hand that is a LITTLE too strong to fold. NH

Re: Talladega Nights
 

[ QUOTE ]
you really think this is a c/c too, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
this is a pretty clear fold imo

Re: Talladega Nights
 

james, dude has JTs often enough to c/c the river.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

Really? JTs is getting capped preflop ever?

James: Why 3-bet the turn?

Re: Talladega Nights
 

[ QUOTE ]
James: Why 3-bet the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

because he has a flush and straight there never.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

i read this.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you really think this is a c/c too, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
this is a pretty clear fold imo

[/ QUOTE ]

and then this.

[ QUOTE ]
james, dude has JTs often enough to c/c the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

and now you have confused me. it probably wasn't a great fold, just a lucky read. i had a hand soooo similar last night i get 22 in the bb, 3 limpers. Flop: QQ2 i bet, 2 callers, turn: 4 i checkraise a limper who bet and a caller on the turn, the limper 3bets, i cap, the river is another 4. i check, he valuebets Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], i call. good times.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

sorry didn't read the whole thread. I think you should have folded preflop. That being said I think you need to c/c the river.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

[semi-grunch]

There's no way you can check/fold or even bet/fold getting a bazillion to one, so it's either bet/call or check/call. I doubt that he capped preflop with JT or QX spades, which...wow, I really don't see anything he has that you beat. But I still can't bring myself to believe that check/fold is correct here. Table image considerations alone demand a call.

I think you're just destined to lose one more bet almost every time, and be shown KxQs once every year or so.

[/semi-grunch]

Re: Talladega Nights
 

[ QUOTE ]
Table image considerations alone demand a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw, after i gave that much action and folded i couldn't really take a bet/fold line the rest of the session. people started taking shots...which was a pain, but it's nice to be 3bet by 33 on a Q64 flop when you're holding AQ.

Re: Talladega Nights
 

c/c you are getting 17.5:1 on a call. Just MHO.

Peace,
Mygtar

Re: Talladega Nights
 

Not everyone plays logically and you are getting 17.5:1 on a call. Are you going to win often? No, but 17:5 to 1 I am paying off to see what he has, for table image and the outside chance I have the winning hand.

Peace,
Mygtar

Re: Talladega Nights
 

fold u fool, see u at the tables u fish!

Re: Talladega Nights
 

I can see him steal-raising with JT or QXs and then getting caught up in the re-steal enough to cap PF. And in either case the flop and turn would be great for him. These are reasonable possibilities though certainly he could have many other hands.

Sure he probably has a big pair, and you may be behind, but with pot odds like that, I can't see folding on the river for one more, and so I'd c/c. You only need to be right about 6% of the time. I think you would be.

bill