Local card room vs Vegas
 

I am a recreational player at my local cardroom. The highest I play is 6/12. The conventional wisdom is that the average low limit player is horrible and that reading SSHE and applying the strategies correctly you should be crushing the games. From my observations this is not the case at all. Most tables I play at have one or two bad players, but the VAST majority of the players are pretty solid.

I have a theory about this. Since my local card club is not part of a casino, the only reason people go there is to play poker. People come from all over the three state region to play and are obviously serious about their game.

Casinos on the other hand attract people who are just there to gamble. They figure they'll give poker a try since they saw it on TV and it looked like fun. The couple of times I have been to Las Vegas I have noticed that the level of play was much worse than what I was used to.

Anyone else see a big difference in the level of play between their local card room and the casinos or am I giving the local players too much credit?

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

There are certainly less "locals" in a Vegas casino versus your hometown place, that is true. Usually, in a typical Strip casino, there are about 2 locals at every table on average. Locals tend to play tighter and certainly play more often.

In LA and other parts of the country where they have poker casinos, these players are nearly all locals with 2 out of towners at best, however not all locals are the same.

In LA the locals are often the craziest ones at the table, especially at lower limits. Capping preflop with crap and three betting the flopa with second pair is common.

In Vegas, however, the play is significantly more passive (from the locals and the tourists). Though there a good many aggressive players (and TAG ones) it is not the majority.

So I would agree with you that the level of play is worse in Vegas then most local places, and hopefully it will stay that way. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

here in dallas, where the local card rooms are illegal, then, yes, people have to go to significant effort to find, and get into the games, so you can expect them to be much more into poker than the average joe at a convention in vegas.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

There is a huge gap in the level of alcohol consuption between LV poker rooms and my local cardclub. The heavy boozing leads to slow games with a high percentage of players seeing the flop. The odd thing in Vegas is that some of the heaviest drinkers are locals, often off-duty casino employees.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

I guess the question is it possible to win at the low stakes tables in the long run when 7 solid players are going after two bad players money considering rake and tipping?

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess the question is it possible to win at the low stakes tables in the long run when 7 solid players are going after two bad players money considering rake and tipping?

[/ QUOTE ]

its probably beatable, but ever so slightly. in LA i play mostly 3/6 and the rake is not percentage and is always 3+1, even in a $6 pot, so if the players were like they are at your room it probably would barely even be beatable, if at all. LV is a little better than here but mostly cuz of the rake, it seems like half the people playing in vegas are from LA anyway.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

TommyO - Canterbury is definently a gem and far bigger than most local rooms. I moved away from MN about a year and half ago and the games were much better then that you describe now (I played 6/12, 8/16 and 15/30), thats too bad if it has gotten a lot tougher but sometimes that can make the plays some people are trying to make so much more obvious.

While living in MN I would travel over to Turtle Lake, WI to play NL and those players were worse than the MN players but I think that was just becuase they got more new players in there, maybe that was becuase they were a full casino.

I can say that in my experience at Canterbury the quality of play was worse on Friday/Saturdays like it would be at any typical casino. Also playing after their regular tournaments was a very good decision.

One thing I didnt learned until I moved in MN is the value in table changing out of a bad game, when you are in a poker room that big its easy to get out of a bad game and into a better one.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

Yes, without reservation. While I wouldn't describe the local rooms here in WA as "tough" by any stretch, I was shocked at how soft comparable limits (4/8, 8/16) were at Wynn, Venetian, and MGM. Bellagio was a little tougher (relative to these other Strip casinos, not my local game), but not much.

All in all, anyone going to Vegas for the first time thinking that he's "stepping up" to tougher competition than the same limits he plays at home has it exactly backwards. In fact, his edge will increase (or in the case of a bad player, his disadvantage will decrease, perhaps even break even).

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

I think you hit the nail on the head Station. I usually play on Thursday nights because that's the only night that works for me. Fewer people are drinking at the table on week nights and you don't get the after bar croud coming in. I also don't ask for table changes as often as I should. Thanks for the input.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

Friday night, Saturday all day, Sunday all day and any day near a holiday are CP's best bets.
The 6/12, is by far, the most solid game. As long as Sy doesn't take a seat. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
With the exception of the Mirage's 6/12, you would be hard pressed to find a tougher game in Vegas below 15/30.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

Agree with OP. It's why I didn't play in my local room until I had made several trips to Vegas first.

Regarding local/tourist ratio in Vegas, I've sat at tables where I was the only out-of-towner. Someone will post here about how fishy MGM or someplace is, and all the sharks descend on it. Within a couple weeks the place will be ruined for easy games.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

I totally agree with TommyO here. I am a frequent Canterbury 4/8 and 6/12 player and have found the competition to be quite good and getting better over the last few years. I have read TOP, SSHE and HPFAP and have winning sessions and losing sessions basically based on weather my big pairs hold up and big draws hit. If they do I usually win and if they don't I sometimes lose. Table selection is very key at Canterbury. If you look around the table and see 5-6 faces you recognize you should ask for a table change as soon as possible.

Vegas is definitely much easier games. I have played at all the big Vegas cardrooms and have been shocked by some of the bad play I've seen by some of the drunk tourists there. There are very good players there as well especially in the bigger, nicer rooms but just avoid playing much against them and it's pretty easy to win out there compared to here. Many, many more drunk fish out there!

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

I really have to disagree with those who describe the games at CP as tough to beat. I have played the 6/12 fairly consistent over the last two years and have witnessed generally poor to mediocre play. I have found the games in Vegas to be equally fishy at best and much tighter (especially limit nowadays) at worst.

I agree that the games are better Fri. - Sun., but they are still easily beatable during the week. I was just there Monday during MNF and was in just about the juiciest game ever. It was 5-7 to the flop, often for multiple bets. I saw someone go 5 bets on the river without broadway on a hand where it was the nuts. There were two players at the table with (literally) a VPIP of 100%.

I really think you should be crushing this game by using SSHE. I remember a quote from someone in this forum one time: "Canterbury Park, the only cardroon where the tourists are better than the locals"

HF

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

I knew a post like this was just a matter of time. I'm not crushing the game so I obviously suck. Yes, I have been in a few games like you describe but they are few and far between, at least on the nights I play.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

I have more winning sessions than losing ones and don't think CP games are impossible to beat, just tougher than an average Vegas game. As TommyO said in Vegas you have way more "gamblers" who have never played or play very little compared to CP where it's mostly regulars and people who are there to specifically play poker. Not all of these regulars or locals are good players but probably say 75% vs. like maybe 40% in Vegas.

The LAG's and caller down guys make it tough for big pairs to stand up which I know is overall good, but can kill you sometimes when they river that second pair on your big pair or straight/flush on your trips over and over in a session while you can't hit a draw. The key is waiting to hit a big hand and value betting it big.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

Exactly. I too win more than I lose but I'm certainly not crushing the games. If you are crushing these games you are probably just running good.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

I would be interested to hear from others around the country on this.

How are you local Card Clubs skillwise compared to the Vegas games you have played?
Do you usually play for lower, higher or about the same stakes in Vegas that you play at home?

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

Porkchop I am a 4/8 LHE grinder at Foxwoods. I have played in Vegas once and found that at my level i.e. the kiddie pool, the play is very similar. Usually a full table of ten breaks down like this 2 LAGs (maniacs), 5 LAPs (fish), 2 TAPs (old rocks), and me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Once in awhile the table will have a few TAGs on it, but rarely are there ever more than 3 of us.

Best of luck,
Mygtar

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

i have played all over the country and i don't really see much difference in play from one area to another. i usually play 2/5 nl or 10/20 limit and you can find good/bad games at the same casino depending on the day or time. before the recent poker boom it seemed to me that the casinos in vegas were mostly populated by tight local players. now i see more tourists that want to emulate what they see on t.v. many of these type players only have so much time to play and like to give and get action. i would say i have only gotten into one really tough game in vegas recently,(at the wynn) and it was mostly locals who seemed to know each other.

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

Thanks Mygtar,
I've played here in the midwest(Minn and Wisc), Tampa Florida (1/2 limit No fold em hold em), Casino AZ in Phoenix (solid overall play there), Commerce and Bike in LA(Definitely the most LAG poker I have ever played, Cap It!) and Vegas. I've never made it out east yet but I would love to play there someday!

I usually play higher limits in Vegas (8/16,10/20) than I do at home 4/8,6/12. I also like playing in Vegas better than anywhere else by far due to the supply of fish, overall environment, affordable tourneys and of course free drinks(in moderation of course)

Anyone else? What about Tunica, Arizona, AC players?
How do your locales compare to Vegas from what you've seen/experienced?

Re: Local card room vs Vegas
 

also, from my experience the higher dollar tournaments do seem to attract more(over-all) better/decent players.