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Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
I have joined my varsity fencing team (no tryouts, just keep showing up for classes and then you get on the team). For the last 8 weeks we all learned with the foil but now we get to choose our weapon of preference. After looking up each weapon and the differences between them, I still have no idea. What weapon is the best?
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Saber. It's just the coolest.
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Paging 'Cardo to the front desk.
But he'll probably tell you saber too. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
samurai sword
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.hooverfence.com/sports/ba...tix-271-lg.jpg [/ QUOTE ] How wicked would it be for the other dude to call "en garde", and as soon as he does you start wailing on him with a bat. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
OMG YOU GUYS
Sorry, I got here as fast as I could. 'Fun?' Well, define fun. I generally equate 'fun' with 'winning,' so I would therefore concentrate on whatever weapon my coach thought I was most likely to be successful in. If you're really at a loss, though, each is not without their charm. Foil is the most 'fun' if you equate fun with deep tactical / strategic planning. It's the hardest weapon with which to score, and requires the most setting-up actions. If you think you'd enjoy elaborate, multi-level thinking with your blade actions more than anything, then be a foilist. Epee has the most athleticism and bursts of action of the three weapons. If you want more than anything to show off your magnificent fleche, or hit guys behind your back or whatever, then you ought to be an epeeist. Saber, my specialty, is the easiest weapon with which to score, so it's less frustrating than the other two to begin with. It favors precise mechanics and the ability to make good decisions very quickly. Saber also has constant action and moves up and down the strip, so it's fairly exciting. Also, it is by far the coolest. Just pick the description that seems the most appealing, and get it on. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
How would one get into fencing if one was so inclined?
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
[ QUOTE ]
How would one get into fencing if one was so inclined? [/ QUOTE ] If you live in a major metropolitan area, you probably have a club. go to www.usfa.org and find one in your area. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
cardo,
thanks for the help. You've narrowed it down to Foil and Saber. Your description of foil is definitely the best for me, though you made saber sound way cooler. If I were to train with a saber as opposed to a foil, do you think I would develop faster reflexes/more athletic ability? |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
I dunno. The epee sounds pretty awesome, what with the whole hitting people behind your back kind of thing.
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Gamblore,
I don't find fencing to be all that great in terms of developing overall fitness. For everything above the waist, the muscle and nerve training your body receives is very specific and asymmetrical. You'll definitely strengthen your glutes, thighs and calves. Also, I do believe that the more intense pace of saber makes higher demands on your footwork than foil. But, really, you should be hitting the gym and doing footwork-only practice in addition to bouting and weapon drills, no matter which weapon you fence. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
ya I don't expect much in terms of a workout, I plan to get that elsewhere for the most part, though I am kind of hoping to get some better reflexes/speed with my attacking arm. This is something I always wanted to improve, and was one of the reasons that encouraged me fence.
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
I had no idea there was more than 1 weapon to choose from.
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Sabre is definitely the most fun, but also the most popular (at least where and when I fenced...), so you might not be able to jump into it right away.
If I couldn't do sabre, I'd do foil. Epee seems like it's more interesting because of the wider target area, but in practice it degenerates into trying to spear your opponent's toe, which is not fun for me. Again, just at the low level I acheived. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Also, I missed Anacardo's reply. I agree with everything he said regarding the tactical/athletic differences between the weapons. Spot on.
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
For those that don't get this thread:
Sabre: http://www.hpfc.org.uk/Graphics/Weap...hing/Sabre.gif Foil: http://www.hpfc.org.uk/Graphics/Weap...thing/Foil.gif Epee: http://www.hpfc.org.uk/Graphics/Weap...thing/Epee.gif |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
If you like right of way, you're going with foil or sabre.
If you don't give a damn about right of way and prefer to let the person who gets there first score, you're going with epee. If you like cuts and clashes and think that seeing sparks fly off your opponent's mask is too cool to pass up, you're going with sabre. If you think jamming the thickest, heaviest piece of metal into your opponent's body is too cool to pass up, you're going with epee. If you like the fastest possible action, you're going with sabre. If you like charging headlong past your opponent while you attack, you're going with epee or foil. I started with sabre. It's very fast and favors aggression. Target area is everything above the waist, with any part of the blade. Frustrating things can occur when you have a crappy judge, who thinks that your pris le fer was actually your opponent's, and awards him the touch instead of you. Super fun things about sabre, other than the obvious, include the opportunity for stop cuts, which I think compare favorably to check-raising the aggressor in poker. If you see guys who are fairly short or squat and maybe even pudgy, they probably fence sabre, but I've seen all types. I fenced epee a little after sabre, and I could honestly go back and forth. It was nice to get away from stupid beat attacks that would never have any chance of actually moving a blade off-target and just say "Who gets there first, wins." Target area is the entire body. I wouldn't attack or even feint at the nuts for two reasons, though: 1) Your opponent is probably wearing a cup, which takes the fear out of it, and 2) Keep in mind that he has a sword in his hand, too. You don't want that sword looking for the family jewels. Lines of attack and defense become much more important, and precision is favored over quickness. Epee bouts last far longer than sabre bouts because there is less of a sudden crash and more of a back and forth, and therefore your stamina must be greater. Aggressive epeeists may fleche a lot, which is not allowed in sabre unless the rules have changed in the last couple of years. If you see tall, skinny people, those are most probably epeeists, as the longest reach matters more with this weapon than any other. I never fenced foil other than in screwing around. And by screwing around, I mean screwing up, so take heed that is is definitely my weakest weapon. Target area you must already know pretty well if that's what you started with, and of course you can fleche, but you have to hit the trunk, and right of way is a concern. I never liked foil because the really good fencers could flick their blades so easily, brush your shoulder lightly, and take a touch in a way that I think has nothing to do with actual fencing. That said, I really disliked it because I was no good at it. If you prefer the interplay of line attacks and parries, but like right of way and don't want to worry about wrist or head touches, foil is for you. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
[ QUOTE ]
Gamblore, I don't find fencing to be all that great in terms of developing overall fitness. For everything above the waist, the muscle and nerve training your body receives is very specific and asymmetrical. You'll definitely strengthen your glutes, thighs and calves. Also, I do believe that the more intense pace of saber makes higher demands on your footwork than foil. But, really, you should be hitting the gym and doing footwork-only practice in addition to bouting and weapon drills, no matter which weapon you fence. [/ QUOTE ] You can also do some training with the opposite hand to balance things out a little. I had one coach who said you should be good enough with your off hand to practice against your teammates with it, and that should take care of some of the assymetry. I felt like a 'tard the few times I tried it, though. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Saber and it's not even close. I started off with Foil and moved on to Saber as soon as I was allowed to, which was about 6 weeks later.
The target area is larger and there are no off target attacks in Saber, which greatly slow down Foil bouts. The action is much faster in Saber and lots more fun IMO. You can also attack by slashing as opposed to only thrusting. As for Epee, I hate it. I cannot watch an Epee bout, even a 5-pointer. I doze off. If you go with Epee, work out your calves a lot because you will spend most of the bout hopping back and forth. Yes, it requires a lot more precision, patience, and expertise with point work, but it is just so damn boring. Once you stop counterattacking and being attacked in preparation in Saber (which will definitely happen to you for a few weeks unless you have an awesome coach or are a natural born master swordsman), you will love it. The only downside I see to Saber is that electric equipment costs more, but at least you don't need to bring a damn toolkit and 5 spare weapons to an tournament like this Epee dude in my club does. Saber Saber Saber Saber Saber Saber Saber Saber |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
[ QUOTE ]
For those that don't get this thread: Sabre: http://www.hpfc.org.uk/Graphics/Weap...hing/Sabre.gif Foil: http://www.hpfc.org.uk/Graphics/Weap...thing/Foil.gif Epee: http://www.hpfc.org.uk/Graphics/Weap...thing/Epee.gif [/ QUOTE ] http://www.jameswest.com/sigsauer/sig-p226.jpg Sig Sauer P-226 in 9mm with 17 round magazine. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Warik -
I have an awesome counterattack. I daresay it's my best touch. Stop counterattacking? You must be mad. Man. This thread gets me fired up. OOT Cup? 45-touch three-weapon relays for all! |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Oh, ALSO -
Warik brings up an excellent point in favor of a saber concentration - Saber equipment is expensive to start with, but v v v easy to maintain. An eight-year-old could construct a working electric saber from parts. There's no tip, no springs, no tiny screws, no careful weight adjustments. I find this joyous. On the other hand, as previously mentioned, the directing (refereeing) in saber tournaments is by far the worst of the three weapons on average. The actions are a bit complicated to make out to begin with to the untrained eye, and directeurs tend to come from foil, so their eye for timing isn't nearly what it should be. Prepare to get jobbed often. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
[ QUOTE ]
As for Epee, I hate it. I cannot watch an Epee bout, even a 5-pointer. I doze off. If you go with Epee, work out your calves a lot because you will spend most of the bout hopping back and forth. Yes, it requires a lot more precision, patience, and expertise with point work, but it is just so damn boring. [/ QUOTE ] Low-level epee is like this. High-level epee is brilliantly athletic and a pleasure to watch. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
If you need more than a few, you're probably dead.
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
I envy everyone who knows anything in this thread. I've always wanted to fence and think it's righteous. I'll probably wind up taking it up from my wheelchair when I'm 80 and too leathery to cut or puncture.
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Blarg,
Wheelchair fencing is increasingly popular! Also, Veterans' Division events start at 40+. There's a world of options at your fingertips. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
I never even knew there was anything besides foil for the longest time. Crappy fencing club I used to go to.
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
After wariks post, I think Saber has taken the lead. I like the idea of slashing, and it seems that all fencers here think its the most fun.
As for height affecting which weapon I will be best with, I am 5'9. Should this influence my choice? |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
I love the idea of any target being available and by any method. This seems to me much closer to any reasonable idea of combat. It also seems to fit my natural aggression more. Sorry, I thrive, in sparring, on seeking to exploit weakness, and though I think it is a terrible thing in life, it is an ideal regarding matters of life and death. The more opportunistic, maybe even crueler who knows?, the better. That said, in sparring or competing I'm not talking about cheating/purposely wounding in order to win. Strictly mean life or death, whose connection to fencing is a huge part of what I like about the idea of fencing. Everything completely on the line, all the time. Sweet jeebus! Awful, in the original sense of the word. And probably a bit in the present-day one.
The saber seems the most serious weapon to me. The foil and epee were never weapons of war, and would indeed be a laugh in war. They were the weapons of nobles and dandys. But I could see the appeal of other weapons too. Could anyone tell me more about the role of leg strength and spring in fencing? I imagine it can be tremendously important, but wonder if my naturally slow legs and flat ass would be a bigger handicap in one type of swordplay than another? My hands can be brilliantly fast, but while with training my legs can be powerful in terms of kicking hard, and nicely evasive(I can dart from side to side and backwards very comfortably and fluidly) they are not particularly explosive in terms of speed. If the ass counts in propelling the lunge, how crippling is my abysmally flat ass? P.S.: I'm not all that bad at deadlifting. So there's some power there. Just no speed in my gluteus flatimus. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
[ QUOTE ]
The saber seems the most serious weapon to me. The foil and epee were never weapons of war, and would indeed be a laugh in war. They were the weapons of nobles and dandys. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think this is true at all. If an epee was a weapon only of the rich, it was because swords were expensive and not because it was a weapon for dandys. As for "war," yes, I'd prefer a sabre in a completely confused melee. As for dueling with live blades, I'd much prefer a solid point weapon, especially if my opponent had a shorter, slashing weapon. Also note that the target area for sabre is above the waist- that's because it was intended for fighting on horseback rather than the ground. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
In case anyone else lives in central MA, I thought I'd post this:
http://www.higginssword.org/guild/te...html#longsword It's the only place I know of where you can learn broadsword techniques. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Well dueling and war are quite different. Soldiers didn't carry foils into battle; they were a gentleman's weapon. A thin, point-only weapon like a foil would be inefficient in war. Swords also bash when they don't cut, and the ability to cut off a limb is pretty great. Also, slashing and the swords that encourage it, like those of the Indonesian archipelago and scimitars, have been a very successful alternative to puncturing. Giving up the weight and durability of a bigger sword, and slashing too, isn't any good in war. If it had been, you would have seen some armies equipping notable segments of their men with thin stabbing weapons. But, they didn't.
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
When I saw this thread, I said to myself: "I bet Blarg has about half the posts in the thread."
Good to see that I was fairly accurate. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
Kendo - laughable IMO.
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Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
It strikes me as strange that you would have an open choice. Most coaches tend to start a new student on one weapon, and move them from there. Not a progression as in A is better than B, but depending on temperment some are "easier" than others.
It's been a while since I fenced. But I fenced seriously for about 12 years, having success on a state-wide level and some success nationally. My college did not have an NCAA team, so I continued with my local club through those years. In any event, it was my understanding that many coaches begin new students out with Epee. Three reasons, primarily -- it's simpler to understand (first to hit any area of the body wins the point), the equipment is simpler (no lame), and tends to be sturdier and perhaps cheaper in the long-run. Epee is a decent weapon to start with, simply because the rules are fairly common sense. Where you go - or if you go anywhere from there - is up to you and the coach. Personally, I fenced foil almost exclusively. I loved it - fencing remains some of my fondest memories and proudest achievements. And foil always struck me as the weapon which best merged athleticism and strategy. But the truth is, which weapon anyone suggests to you will most of the time revolve around which they liked best, and which they fenced most. Saber and Foil fencers don't really dig Epee, because of the lack of right of way. Foil fencers think Saber fencers are lunatics, and Epee fencers think right of way is silly. Ok, that's not all true, but if you were to grossly generalize, well, there you have it, at a very club-casual level anyway. The very best fencers can usually compete strongly in at least two (three is rare). My suggestion is to start with Epee or Foil. And from me, I say Foil is the most fun. But either one makes a fine starting point. It really is an amazing sport, and I regret leaving it. But when I moved - broke - to a new city, I found it tough to keep with it. And then time and transportation and so on, and suddenly it's been six years since I really fenced. And it's a shame, because it was one thing I felt I truly was starting to "understand," and yeah, I was in the best shape of my life. Do not let people talk down about the physical benefits of the sport - it is intense. It's an extremely rewarding sport. You can fence it on so many levels, progress or not, travel or not. There are recreational fencers in all parts, fencing side by side with fencers who are very, very good. I hope you enjoy it, whatever decision you make. It remains one of those things I define myself by, despite being someting that is probably in the past for me. Robert |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
[ QUOTE ]
I have an awesome counterattack. I daresay it's my best touch. Stop counterattacking? You must be mad. [/ QUOTE ] Apologies - maybe I shouldn't be more clear. I meant counterattacking into an opponents valid attack, which is what I did forever until somebody finally explained the call to me in terms that someone who hasn't been fencing for years could understand. A counterattack after an opponents failed attack is teh pwn. |
Re: Fencing- what weapon is the most fun?
[ QUOTE ]
After wariks post, I think Saber has taken the lead. I like the idea of slashing, and it seems that all fencers here think its the most fun. [/ QUOTE ] Hooray! I made a difference. [ QUOTE ] As for height affecting which weapon I will be best with, I am 5'9. Should this influence my choice? [/ QUOTE ] Nah - I'm 5'10". There are a few really good saber fencers I've been crushed by who are that height or slightly taller. If you were really tall then you'd have an advantage in foil/epee. One of my club's epee fencers is pretty tall and has a real reach advantage over shorter fencers. In saber it is not THAT much of an advantage because it doesn't necessarily matter who hits first - it matters who has right of way. But saber is better anyway so even if you dwarfed Shaq I'd say to fence saber. =) |
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