Crap!
 

Villain is a 28/20 TAG player, and seems to play alright.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (8.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero...

Re: Crap!
 

I'd check and let him bluff.

Re: Crap!
 

check calling seems like the worst option. why would he bet an underpair here? if you check and he bets i guess you can hope for a split with KJ or KTs. otherwise you're losing.

Re: Crap!
 

Yeah I spaced out pf and thought villain's range had a lot of draws in it. I'd b/f. It's pretty close to a c/f, but the pot is just too big IMO.

Re: Crap!
 

Value town.

Re: Crap!
 

Is he really calling with any worse hands?

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is he really calling with any worse hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he got here with a pp, he's probably calling. A lot of TAG's even at higher levels can't make themselves fold once they go into calldown mode.

Re: Crap!
 

b/f

Re: Crap!
 

b/f &gt; b/c &gt; c/f &gt; c/c

Re: Crap!
 

What A hands other than Ah(Qh - 9h), should villain have? What non A hands should villain have? Is he ever going to bet his worse hands? Is he ever not going to bet his better hands?

If he's a good TAG, which I tend to give 28/20s a lil more credit, he knows that when u check, betting his 88-QQ is retarded. So he'll play the river perfectly. If u do check, i think that folding might be the better option. He will call one more bet on the end b/c the river card only helps a small percentage of ur hands. His pocket pair will beat a bluff/ lower pocket pair/ 89 type hand still and it's too big to fold.

I think deciding between b/c and b/f could be tough depending on the player. Against me, I would b/c, but it can be tricky.

Summary, i think checking is always bad, but i can't decide between calling and folding if raised.

Re: Crap!
 

Does anyone else not raise the flop?

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else not raise the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

In position I probably call the flop to raise the turn. OOP I raise the flop almost always here.

Re: Crap!
 

Did I miss anything? A TAG is usually not a calling station. Given your information, you are smoked all the way which was confirmed by his flop call. Because you did not give up after the flop, you played the hand wrong.

If you after all did win the hand, it was not a TAG player.

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did I miss anything? A TAG is usually not a calling station. Given your information, you are smoked all the way which was confirmed by his flop call. Because you did not give up after the flop, you played the hand wrong.

If you after all did win the hand, it was not a TAG player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, ok.

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did I miss anything? A TAG is usually not a calling station. Given your information, you are smoked all the way which was confirmed by his flop call. Because you did not give up after the flop, you played the hand wrong.

If you after all did win the hand, it was not a TAG player.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

Re: Crap!
 

wern't you playing 15/30 about 6 months ago? and 2-4 NL earlier last month? Busto?

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
wern't you playing 15/30 about 6 months ago? and 2-4 NL earlier last month? Busto?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...ue/ferrari.jpg

Re: Crap!
 

What do you put the TAG on when he calls the turn?

He COULD have a flush draw, but for me, the likely holding is 10 10 to QQ.

I think you have to bet here and I'd probably even call a raise for info/metagame etc.

Re: Crap!
 

Don't laugh..;)

A TAG player have AA, KK or AK here.
He will of course never call the flop or turn with less.
He might had have QQ-99, but after the flop it's not possible anymore.
So obviously, no meaning to pay him off.

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't laugh..;)

A TAG player have AA, KK or AK here.
He will of course never call the flop or turn with less.
He might had have QQ-99, but after the flop it's not possible anymore.
So obviously, no meaning to pay him off.

[/ QUOTE ]

People are laughing because this has to be a joke.

Re: Crap!
 

I admit that lack of logic is a joke. But poker is dead serious.

Re: Crap!
 

Assuming that your posts in this threads are serious, you need to widen your range of possible TAG holdings.

Re: Crap!
 

When did a TAG-player who play "alright", became a calling station..?

Let's assume that he trebet preflop with 99 and better, but after flop a reasonable good TAG-player will never continue without a better hand than KJ.

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
after flop a reasonable good TAG-player will never continue without a better hand than KJ.

[/ QUOTE ]
i could win 10bb/100 if this were true

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't laugh..;)

A TAG player have AA, KK or AK here.
He will of course never call the flop or turn with less.
He might had have QQ-99, but after the flop it's not possible anymore.
So obviously, no meaning to pay him off.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong. The guy has a 20% pfr and he's 3-betting an agressive players raise from the BT. He has a range much wider then 99+ and AK. He would very rarely play AA/AK/KK/KQ this way on the flop and turn. Good players aren't folding 77-QQ on this flop. He doesn't have to be a calling station to bet the river here.

Re: Crap!
 

That is not a TAG player. That is a loose player.

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
That is not a TAG player. That is a loose player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah think? A very large percent of winning players at 5/10+ are at least that loose. This guys stats look very similar to mine for example.

Re: Crap!
 

This may seem loose to you, but it's not, and if you're playing that tight you'll probably get run over.

OP stated that villain is a 28/20 TAG. This kind of player has a wider range than you assign to him when he 3-bets a TAGs CO open-raise, and he will continue past a flop like this one with a good amount of those hands.

Re: Crap!
 

I don't think I said that TAG's are doing particularly well. I do not think I comment at all on the question regarding what style is more or less profitable.

I just say that if a reasonable good TAG-player is with him after c/r the flop, then he is smoked.

Re: Crap!
 

And people are telling you that simply is not true, your analysis on this hand is dead wrong, but if you don't want to listen... oh well so be it.

Re: Crap!
 

Actually, if you mean that a TAG suddenly is a LAG or a calling station, then I have no problem to c/r the flop and bet it to the end. It seems logical.

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I said that TAG's are doing particularly well. I do not think I comment at all on the question regarding what style is more or less profitable.

I just say that if a reasonable good TAG-player is with him after c/r the flop, then he is smoked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well there's not can say to convince you other then in all likelihood I've played much higher then you and much more then you and that is completely wrong in my experience.

Also folding everything but AK/AA/KK on that flop is not "reasonable" it's weak and it will get you killed in non-micro 6m games.

Re: Crap!
 

Ok, logic seems to be your weaker subject.

Shall we now change to the subject of bragging?
Besides that you suppose that you have been playing much higher than me and much more aswell..

Re: Crap!
 

Keep refusing to learn, and you'll never get better.

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, logic seems to be your weaker subject.

Shall we now change to the subject of bragging?
Besides that you suppose that you have been playing much higher than me and much more aswell..

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of this game isn't about logic. It's about experience. You can't deduce a persons hand range without experience. This isn't a philosophical or political debate. A debate about what the right play in poker is significantly more difficult because poker is a game of incomplete information. You fill in that missing information with your experience playing the game.

So what games do you play anyway? I play 5/10-10/20.

Re: Crap!
 

My dear. I am the best in the specific game I play. The last 4 years I have been playing professionaly. I have never been playing in a game I can't beat and I have been playing against some of Swedens best players in live game, cash and tourneys at the local casino. I have played with people who the last 3 years have finished in top20 in ME WSOP.

My experience is very solid. I know what to do when I play with a good TAG-player. I do not mind to fold.

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
My dear. I am the best in the specific game I play. The last 4 years I have been playing professionaly. I have never been playing in a game I can't beat and I have been playing against some of Swedens best players in live game, cash and tourneys at the local casino. I have played with people who the last 3 years have finished in top20 in ME WSOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Limit Hold'em is a very different game then NL. Online poker is quite different then live.

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
My dear. I am the best in the specific game I play.

[/ QUOTE ]
for the record:

the game is Absolute 1/2.

and this is the guy who overlimp-reraised 55 in the A9s hand Unguarded posted the other day (flop 995).

still very possible that dasbusen is nothing more than a troll.

Re: Crap!
 

Thank you for coming here to educate the rest of us idiots, at least you're not being condescending in spite of your superiority.

More DasBusen hilarity can be found here along with an answer to Leaders question that DasBusen avoided to answer earlier.

Re: Crap!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My dear. I am the best in the specific game I play.

[/ QUOTE ]
for the record:

the game is Absolute 1/2.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol I actually knew that too, but I figured I'd let him play pro if he wanted.