Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

Why do some of the poker rooms have the betting line and some not?

I never played in Vegas before and got burned by the no betting line.

Was used to playing with a betting line but then went to the Wynn and this hand came up...

1/3 NL game, $200 pot, I was 1st to act on the river.

So I had a bunch of little stacks of $3 chips and I simply want to count them out so right in front of me I start making little piles of chips as I was thinking how much to bet.

As I was making these piles the other guy in the hand says "Ohh, that is a string bet"

And the dealer agreed with him so he just called a $9 bet into the $200 stack. But the thing is, I did this same thing for 2 hrs before that hand and no one said anything.

It would be easier for me to know where I can count my chips and where I can't if there was a betting line.

They told me the rule was that if I put any chips in front of my cards, then that is the bet...

But I think a betting line would lead to less confusion.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

I think the safest would either be to keep the chips behind the cards, or count them out beside your stack rather than in front of them.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

Yeah, will do that from now on.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

Best thing is to get in the habit of doing it right for all situations and locations. Keep your chips close to the rail, your cards protected several inches in front, and do your cutting in a triangle starting behind your cards and between your chips (essentially inside your elbows).

That said, the fact that you wrote "But the thing is, I did this same thing for 2 hrs before that hand and no one said anything." shows that the dealers aren't really doing a good job. Assuming they see this they should warn you (between hands) to cut chips in back of your cards as noted above. I also think a floor might make a decision in your favor if you were clearly able to show that you had established this precedent for the previous two hours.

This is also the kind of rule/procedure that should be on a sign on the wall or mentioned in some sort of "player guide" handouts, especially since things are are different in LA. All sorts of sloppy cutting off chips in front of your cards but not pushed forward is tolerated. It gets to the point were players use "a little" forward motion as an angle. I try to do things the traditional way and look like I'm from another planet.

The betting line has some advantages but from what I've heard leads to a new class of angles I'll leave to others to discuss. As an aside, the betting lines you see in most LA clubs is not used as a betting line; rather it is there to encourage players to push their bets forward so the typical 5' 1" tall 90 lb. female dealer can reach them without going on disability before the age of 40. Still, not pushing bets or discards were the dealer can easily reach them is one of the best way (censored] can be abusive without calling much attention to themselves.

~ Rick

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

The betting line is really more of an ergonomic aid for the dealers anyway. I've never seen it strictly enforced at the places that have it. Just as a chp makes a good card protector, your cards make good chip protectors. As always, the verbal bet and confirmation whn the dealer announces it to the table are best.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

$200 pot.
$3 chips.
You are counting out 3 chip stacks. $9 each. Half pot bet is 11 stacklets.

Why?

(sorry, pet peeve).

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

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The betting line has some advantages but from what I've heard leads to a new class of angles I'll leave to others to discuss.

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This is true. I hope others don't discuss it too much as I am working on an article about it that I plan to sell.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

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The betting line is really more of an ergonomic aid for the dealers anyway.

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That is often the case. I got a little surprise one day at Green Valley Ranch in LV when I found the betting line is not only binding, but the AIRSPACE above it is also binding. Pick up a stack and move it across the line, in the air, and you're committed.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

I find people make more mistakes with betting lines that without. With a line, people who are used to going forward with a handful of chips and leaving behind just what they intend regularly get forced to bet FAR more than they intended. And the dealers are stuck trying to figure out exactly how many chips were in the player's hand as it crossed the line since bettors tend to go out with a handful, drop a few, then return the rest of the chips to the top of a stack in front of them--great, so how many chips did he just return to his stack? 7, 8, 9? And yeah, the angles available are good ones.

Just keep yer chips behind/beside your cards until you're ready to bet. Mind you, I also despise this whole new era of people screaming "STRING" 6 times an hour. 19 out of 20 times, the intention of someone is crystal clear and the claims of "string bet" are nittly. What I especially find annoying is folks not in the hand doing this. Butt out, people.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

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the AIRSPACE above it is also binding

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That's also true at San Pablo in the Bay Area. I was a little shocked when someone was just holding chips over the line to bet and was forced to raise in a limit game. Also, they wouldn't allow a person to hold the chips over and say "raise" if there weren't enough in his/her hand. Seemed sort of absurd. Meanwhile, at Oaks, you can pull back a raise if you did it accidentally, and the line there is meaningless.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the AIRSPACE above it is also binding

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That's also true at San Pablo in the Bay Area. I was a little shocked when someone was just holding chips over the line to bet and was forced to raise in a limit game. Also, they wouldn't allow a person to hold the chips over and say "raise" if there weren't enough in his/her hand. Seemed sort of absurd. Meanwhile, at Oaks, you can pull back a raise if you did it accidentally, and the line there is meaningless.

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Right...where I play at Choctaw, the betting line is like the endzone. All you have to do is break the plane with the ball (chips), and its in (the pot).

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

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Still, not pushing bets or discards were the dealer can easily reach them is one of the best way (censored] can be abusive without calling much attention to themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

I admit that I am guilty of doing this when the dealer has made me angry by not following the rules or some such thing. I'll flip my bet out just beyond their reach for a few rounds. They usually figure out why I am doing this and start acting right again. It's my passive/aggressive protest.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

Betting lines suck.

b

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

Betting lines: More trouble caused than fixed.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The betting line is really more of an ergonomic aid for the dealers anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is often the case. I got a little surprise one day at Green Valley Ranch in LV when I found the betting line is not only binding, but the AIRSPACE above it is also binding. Pick up a stack and move it across the line, in the air, and you're committed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that happen at Bay 101. A guy had gone all-in and an angle shooter opponent held his stack in the air past the line, but not on the felt, Matusow-style trying to get a reaction. First guy said "that's a call", angle shooter said "it was not. Over the line but not on the table." Floor said "Line doesn't play here sir, but you moved your chips forward. That's a call."

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The betting line is really more of an ergonomic aid for the dealers anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is often the case. I got a little surprise one day at Green Valley Ranch in LV when I found the betting line is not only binding, but the AIRSPACE above it is also binding. Pick up a stack and move it across the line, in the air, and you're committed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that happen at Bay 101. A guy had gone all-in and an angle shooter opponent held his stack in the air past the line, but not on the felt, Matusow-style trying to get a reaction. First guy said "that's a call", angle shooter said "it was not. Over the line but not on the table." Floor said "Line doesn't play here sir, but you moved your chips forward. That's a call."

[/ QUOTE ]

This should be a call everywhere betting line or not. If the rules aren't written to make this clear, then IMO they need to be.

Although forward motion for betting or raising doesn't completely define the bet or raise in NL, forward motion when facing a clear bet must be held to the amount of the call.

All this said, I'm not sure one would get consistency of rulings or opinions here. I believe the subject has been partially covered in past threads but probably could/should be re-visited. Too tired to find a link now though or go into my logic in detail.

~ Rick

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still, not pushing bets or discards were the dealer can easily reach them is one of the best way (censored] can be abusive without calling much attention to themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

I admit that I am guilty of doing this when the dealer has made me angry by not following the rules or some such thing. I'll flip my bet out just beyond their reach for a few rounds. They usually figure out why I am doing this and start acting right again. It's my passive/aggressive protest.

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I doubt they connect what they did wrong to your subsequent subtle actions or that this is the reason they are now "acting right again". But it's possible I suppose.

That said, I agree deliberately flipping your bets out of easy reach is "passive/aggressive" and perhaps that's the better term for what is still abusive, in a sneaky sort of way. If the dealer did something significantly wrong then let them, a floor, or a supervisor know, hopefully with as much diplomacy and tact as possible.

Criticism is OK, but you don't physically (or mentally) abuse people ever in response to a mistake.

~ Rick

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

It's more about personal preference.

I prefer the betting line when taking favorites that I know will win big so I can lay 200 to win 200.

I prefer the money line when I know an underdog has a good chance to win the game outright so I'm getting a better return on my 200 bucks.

Betting lines IMO are much more popular than money lines with the general public but I think money lines are better suited for the skilled bettor.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] wink

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's more about personal preference.

I prefer the betting line when taking favorites that I know will win big so I can lay 200 to win 200.

I prefer the money line when I know an underdog has a good chance to win the game outright so I'm getting a better return on my 200 bucks.

Betting lines IMO are much more popular than money lines with the general public but I think money lines are better suited for the skilled bettor.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] wink

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The only thing I've learned about sports betting is that on the rare occasion I do get a chance to watch a game with a friend or friends I simply take 5 or 10% of their action rather than micro-betting against them when they have big money the other way like I stupidly did ten years ago at a Super Bowl Party.

~ Rick

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

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Why do some of the poker rooms have the betting line and some not?



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Where players are playing against the house you will find consistency in the presence of betting lines. Poker? Figure it yourself...whether the joints give a hoot. All they want is the rake / time or profit from a tournament.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

i find the best way to avoid confusion is to verbally declare your action. Say "Raise" and then the amount.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

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i find the best way to avoid confusion is to verbally declare your action. Say "Raise" and then the amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, it's amazing how many problems would be fixed if people just verbalized their action.

It's like poker players are too lazy or something. Or maybe they think the way they say it might be a tell.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I saw that happen at Bay 101. A guy had gone all-in and an angle shooter opponent held his stack in the air past the line, but not on the felt, Matusow-style trying to get a reaction. First guy said "that's a call",

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, if the first guy was bluffing, he wouldn't have said anything. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Funny how that works.

Personally, I wait until the guy finishes his action. If I react too fast and fall for whatever he's trying to do, it's on me. I find myself more pissed at myself than the opponent because I know better.

I think too many want(selectively) compensation for not paying attention or being impatient.

b

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i find the best way to avoid confusion is to verbally declare your action. Say "Raise" and then the amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, it's amazing how many problems would be fixed if people just verbalized their action.

It's like poker players are too lazy or something. Or maybe they think the way they say it might be a tell.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is this plus there are places where it is loud and hard to here and in some markets there are large numbers of non-native speakers. Also a lot of times new players have trouble remembering the correct words (I once had to rule on an obviously new player who said "call" as she threw her cards away because the dealer had told her "just tell me what you want to do").

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

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the AIRSPACE above it is also binding

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They changed that rule in the new poker room at Green Valley. One can now open the betting by going over the line, dropping as many chips as you like, and returning with chips. The new rule brings them back in alignment with most of the rooms in town.

Re: Betting line vs no betting line at casinos, why?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the AIRSPACE above it is also binding

[/ QUOTE ]


They changed that rule in the new poker room at Green Valley. One can now open the betting by going over the line, dropping as many chips as you like, and returning with chips. The new rule brings them back in alignment with most of the rooms in town.

[/ QUOTE ]

In LA when lead betting it has become accepted practice to allow a player to come out with a palm sized stack of chips (usually 20) and cut off the amount of his bet.

~ Rick