Celtics
 

My expert analysis is that this group of young very athletic players could be a very good team except for one tiny little problem.

THEY CAN'T [censored] ING SHOOT.

Re: Celtics
 

...or play defense

On top of that, their coach is about 3 levels over his head. He could probably coach an AAU team, maybe a lower level HS team.

Re: Celtics
 

I really get the impression Danny Ainge has absolutely no idea what he is doing...He makes trades just to make them and he doesn't seem to have any direction at all

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]
I really get the impression Danny Ainge has absolutely no idea what he is doing...He makes trades just to make them and he doesn't seem to have any direction at all

[/ QUOTE ]

You just don't have the right brain type to think at his level.

Re: Celtics
 

Doc is the #1 problem on this team, hands down.

Most of their defensive problems come from poor switching (there was a sequence in last night's Magic game that was just AWFUL).. with a young team like this, that's a coach's duty.

As for shooting, they have some work to do, but they aren't terrible. Delonte is off to a bad start, I think he's really lost in his new role. PP has had a couple of bad shooting games in a row. Gomes would do well to raise his % a couple points. The rest are at pretty much their norms.

Fire Doc, start Rondo, play Delonte more, and Kandi-Man and Scalabrine should never have 13+ combined MPG each, ever. Play Gerald more than you play Tony Allen.

Honestly, without even physically being in Boston, that advice would score them 2 more wins. With a good coach they could still squeak out 35+ wins, even after this trainwreck start.

EDIT: and who the F is this Powe kid? He was completely off my radar. Looked very athletic with a good nose for the ball in the minutes I saw him. Further justification that Scal and Kandi should never get that many minutes.

Re: Celtics
 

Boston fans finally get to enjoy Seabass! Have fun with that, and kidcollin you are right, kandi-man should never, ever, ever be on the court.

Re: Celtics
 

If possible, this team has regressed from last year.

They have no point guard. Rondo can penetrate and dish, but can't shoot. Opposing guards don't even bother defending his outside shot. Telfair can drive and score, but he can't pass. When he gets an assist, it usually is by accident.


They have no bigs. Jefferson is hurt but he was nothing more than a decent offensive force inside. Between him and Perkins they haven't met a foul they couldn't cause. Powe showed signs of life last night but that was just one game, and he is still undersized, just like Gomes.

Wally can't defend and is nothing more than a decent spot shooter. Paul Pierce is obviously very good, but eventually having to continuously play with young kids who make mistake after mistake after mistake on both ends of the floor has to sap his will.

Opposing point guards light the Celts up. It is a fact, they cannot stop a good guard, hell even a mediocre guard. They made Jameer Nelson look like Chris Paul last night.

I like Doc and have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but I'm about ready to jump off the bandwagon and so are all Celts fans. They fans boo him before every game and mock his substitution pattern. Someone called in on the postgame show after the game last night and said Doc wasn't a coach, he was a personality. Meaning, he could manage other teams with good talent, but he can't coach young players, and I agree with that assessment based on what I've seen so far. Even Doc on his postgame interview last night started to crack, you can hear the tension in his voice.

Even worse, it is getting ugly at the Garden. The boos started early last night and I almost felt bad for Scalabrine when he entered the game to a chorus of boos and left a few minutes later while his sub, Powe (who hadn't played a minute yet this year, or very few), got a standing ovation for replacing him. Then I realized that Scalabrine was getting 5 mil this year for sitting on the bench and looking like Michael Rappaport so I stopped feeling so bad.

I have a 12 game pass to Celts games and I'm not sure they can win a single game left on my schedule. 0-12 here I come.

Re: Celtics
 

this thread is great

Re: Celtics
 

everyone blames danny and doc, but this team doesn't protect the basketball (turnovers) and they play atrocious defense.
as much as i hate to say it, playing brian scalabrine DOES address both issues.

paul pierce has fallen into vince carter mode the last two games. this is not good.

the other problem is that their only legitimate wing defender (tony allen) is the worst offensive player i have ever seen.

they are beyond a mess right now, and im so sick of going to games and hearing the fans boo. its just disgusting.

if doc had any balls he would bench pierce. the guy is playing with zero intensity on either end of the floor.

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]
Paul Pierce is obviously very good, but eventually having to continuously play with young kids who make mistake after mistake after mistake on both ends of the floor has to sap his will.


[/ QUOTE ]

He's been looking a bit dejected already. I'm just speculating here, but I think he knows this team is under-performing and the talent is mismanaged. Last year, he was drinking the company Kool Aid and saying the right things. He expected them to be a sub-par team, but he liked what he was seeing in terms of talent and development. Now his team has taken a large step back when they should have improved, possibly fighting for a playoff spot.

Again, I'm putting this on coaching/mngt/team philosophy. First, some of the players (namely Big Al and Perk) are coming along too slowly. Some (if not most) is their fault, and I always thought Perk's ceiling was overrated anyway. But Doc has had a really short fuse with Big Al the past couple of years, after his great rookie season. I know he's had injury issues, but the kid needs minutes, and you need to ride out the highs and the lows. Playing is the best way for young guys to learn.

This brings me to the team philosophy complaint: At some point, they need to decide whether they're developing or trying to win. You can't be in the middle of that and take the worst of both worlds. If you're developing for the future, get guys like Al and Green the minutes they need. Hell, I think they need to do that even to attempt winning. Right now, the minutes everyone is playing is WAY too balanced. Too many mediocre/bad players getting 15-20 a night, sharing minutes with guys like Gomes and Delonte. F that. Scale those minutes back and make sure those guys are on the floor 30+.

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]
as much as i hate to say it, playing brian scalabrine DOES address both issues.


[/ QUOTE ]

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...aderNOOOOO.gif

Re: Celtics
 

I almost feel bad for making you guys take Telfair.

Re: Celtics
 

So.....Joakim Noah or Greg Ogden?

I'm partial to the idea of a Celtics jersey with Noah on the back for obvious reasons.

Re: Celtics
 

This is really just f**king sad. I haven't watched them much this year, so I can't really comment on what exactly has been their problem.

As far as the minutes thing goes, I totally agree with kidcolin. They need to get the players who they think are going to be the long-term stars in there and just let them play. I was yelling about this last year when Scalabrine was playing way too many minutes down the stretch when their season was all but over.

As a matter of fact, they only discovered how good Ryan Gomes was by accident when they didn't have Jefferson or Perkins healthy and they just didn't have anyone else to start.

So there's 4 kids for the forward positions: Perkins, Jefferson, Powe, and Gomes. They absoutely need to get minutes. Why not do something like let two of them play every other quarter or something? Start with Gomes and Jefferson and then let Powe and Perkins play the 2nd quarter. Do whatever it takes, just do what you can to figure out who's going to be a good player at this level and who isn't. Just give them consistent minutes in big chunks and see what they do with it.

And why isn't Delonte West playing more? All he did last year was make big plays and spark the otherwise dead offense and he's only started 2 games and is only getting 23.7 MPG. I just don't get it.

Of the 15 players on the C's roster, TEN! have 3 years of experience or less (and since the season just started, it's more like 2 years or less for all of them). They've done the drafting part, now they just need to put the pieces together. A year or two ago, I felt like they had enough young, maturable talent to win while Pierce was still in his prime, but now I'm not so sure. Add to the fact that Pierce seems to be losing interest and they are regressing instead of improving and I have to wonder if they'll ever be any good.

Re: Celtics
 

1 game winning streak [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

rajon rondo NEEDS to start. ive had enough of the "bassy" era.

also...gerald green knocked down three 3's last night. he needs some more PT.

Re: Celtics
 

again, i like rondo, pierce, wally, al j and gomes to start with perk/powe coming off the bench for the bigs and green and west getting good playing time as well.

there's no reason for allen or wtf orien green to be seeing the court, ever.

Re: Celtics
 

Green's 3 threes were nice, glad to see him pulling the trigger. But there were a few times on breaks where he drifted to the perimeter. He's too athletic to just be a 3-ball threat.

xorb,
orien isn't on our team anymore, bud.

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]

xorb,
orien isn't on our team anymore, bud.

[/ QUOTE ]

wasn't any reason for him to be getting playing time last year either... i just thought i saw him getting minutes. maybe some other team is retarded enough to play him.

Re: Celtics
 

yeah, the pacers. Kendrick threw an elbow into his chest.

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]
Green's 3 threes killed my under bet

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]
I almost feel bad for making you guys take Telfair.

[/ QUOTE ]

bump

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I almost feel bad for making you guys take Telfair.

[/ QUOTE ]

bump

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Celtics
 

first 3 game winning streak since april, 2005. good chance to make it 4 with charlotte coming up next.

GO CELTICS

Re: Celtics
 

I feel proud that my op was a reverse kiss of death.

Re: Celtics
 

In first place baby.

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]
In first place baby.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who knew my tickets would be such a hot commodity for tonights battle between 1st and 2nd place.

Wow.

Re: Celtics
 

i got 3k on under 36 wins, how u guys think im looking?

Re: Celtics
 

Coming from a die-hard Boston fan...

I wouldn't mind one bit if the Celtics started completely over. Not one player on their roster is appealing to me other than Paul Pierce.

Put Delonte West, Al Jefferson, or Kendrick Perkins on a respected franchise and they are duds. On the Celtics they are EXCITING YOUTH WHO WILL BE AMAZING IN 2-3 YEARS. Seriously, the Celtics are completely retarded at developing players. Most franchises can get their stud prospects into "solid nba rising star" status in about ~2 seasons. The Celtics get their prospects to "moving slowly, hasn't done anything, but hes got a high ceiling!" in 2-3 years. From there, they go nowhere.


Cliffnotes: Keep Pierce, keep Gerald Green, everyone else sucks.

Oh, and fire Danny Ainge and Doc RIGHT NOW.



THIS POST PUT ME ON TILTTTTTT HYACHACHACHAHCAHCHA. F ME TO TEARS!!!

Re: Celtics
 

ASPoker,

Al Jefferson is averaging 9 and 7 in 22 minutes per game right now. He's 21. He's a big man.

Lamacrus Aldridge is averaging 8 and 5 right now and even though he was Jefferson's year in high school, he somehow has more potential because hes a rookie?? People have been calling Jefferson a bust for too long.

Look at Jermaine Oneal's stats from his first four years in the league:

4 and 3
5 and 3
3 and 3
4 and 3.

Not everyone is KG or Dwight Howard.

Re: Celtics
 

I don't see Jefferson getting there. I see him being an ok NBA, maybe a starter. But I do not see the star potential for him.

A lot of Jermaine O'Neal's problem was that he wasn't given a chance. Right now, the only thing the Celtics are focused on is trying to progress their young'ns.


I hate how the Cs are promoting this youth movement, when it seems like none of the youth actually have the potential to be great (save Gerald Green). Also, it seems like even if some of them had star potential, the Celtics SUCK AT DEVELOPING PLAYERS!!!

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]
Coming from a die-hard Boston fan...


[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like it, because you're being completely reactionary.

I couldn't disagree more, 'cept maybe Perk. Perk is a solid 10-15 minutes back-up 5 on most teams, but definitely not a good starter. I like his aggressiveness and his size, but his b-ball IQ is subpar, his offense is lacking, and he's a walking foul call. His major weakness is he's slow, which can't really be fixed. Slow reactions, slow hands.. that's a big handicap for a big man.

Delonte, on the other hand, has a very high b-ball IQ. He was a very productive player last season. I just think the C's are messing him up this season. While he's not an amazing talent or anything, he's a valuable asset.

Big Al's problem has been part unlucky, part poor coaching/handling, and part on him. It was 2 years ago, but he was a stud towards the end of his rookie year, capped by a great series against the Pacers. Then he didn't work hard enough in the offseason; that's on him. Then Doc forgets he's only 19-20 and pulls him from games every time he makes a mistake and completely undercuts his confidence. Then the ankle, and now recently the appendix. He's been playing better this season. He's a good coach away from developing into a 16/9 guy, if not better. Hollinger's PER stat ranks Al pretty high. Oh yeah, and HE'S ONLY 21.

I understand people's love affair with Gerald, but I'm willing to wager that big Al will have a more productive career. If I get proved wrong, great. Right now, Gerald is a freakishly athletic young swingman lacking in b-ball IQ.. yeah that's a huge rarity in this league. He's showing a sweet jump shot, at least.

Honestly, starting over when the east is going to this weak for a few years is retarded. They've got solid pieces, it's coaching and mngt that needs to change.

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see Jefferson getting there. I see him being an ok NBA, maybe a starter. But I do not see the star potential for him.

A lot of Jermaine O'Neal's problem was that he wasn't given a chance. Right now, the only thing the Celtics are focused on is trying to progress their young'ns.


[/ QUOTE ]

Did you watch the C's at all last season? You think Doc gave Jefferson a chance? That's laughable.

Re: Celtics
 

WTF @ tonight's game [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Celtics
 

say what you like about green, but he's athletic and can shoot, i see no reason not to give him some playing time. him and pierce could be a pretty dyanimc pairing, and honestly they don't really need a stud PG playing with them. what they need is someone who shoots decently, plays some D and can distribute. they need to pick a PG and go with it.

i think jefferson is fine, and i like rondo. i think with the way the nba is going, they could probably go jefferson/gomes as starting bigs against many teams.

Re: Celtics
 

I have nothing to contribute except for the fact that I work with Kendrick Perkins' cousin's wife. She say he's a nice guy so I'm cool with that. I'll probably pay attention to the Celtics the next time they watch the playoffs.

Re: Celtics
 

http://www.cp.org/premium/Online/Mem...25/v102561.jpg

5 years, $15 million... I'll be wasting roster and cap space for another 3 years. Thanks for the big contract Danny, god knows there was no market for me.

Re: Celtics
 

A couple things.

Don't hate on Scalabrine. He can defend opposing bigs better than anyone else on the Celtics. It's sad, but true. He also has had a consistently good plus/minus his whole career, because he does so many small things, (setting picks, making the extra pass to the right man, boxing out for others to get the rebound.) He is the anti- Gerald Green. At this point, it is more productive to have Scalabrine on the court than Gerald. Whether you want to develop Gerald into a better player is another question, but Doc Rivers is supposed to be trying to win games, not holding 19 year old basketball camps.

Secondly, Jefferson is seriously going to be a stud. 11 points, 8 rebounds, and 2 blocks in 18 minutes last night on 5/6 shooting. Too bad Doc Rivers didn't feel the need to go to him in the second half. He compares very favorably with Jermaine O'Neal and Zack Randolph IMO. If Jefferson was in college, he would be receiving TONS of hype, instead of being a bench player on a bad NBA team.

Re: Celtics
 

GKA,

I second the Jefferson commentary. He's got a nose for the ball, silky smooth post moves, a soft touch, and he's 21. He needs to some work on D for sure, but HE'S 21 PEOPLE. I still think Doc is too short with him.

I agree/disagree about Scalabrine. He does do little things well, and he certainly works hard at those jobs. I don't mind him getting minutes. He is SO bad offensively, however, that anything over 12-15 mins a game is really bad, and even that's a bit too much. If he could routinely knock down the 3ball, I'd be OK with him. But he can't, he always looks like a bundle of nerves when he gets the ball. He hesitates with his shots AND his passes.

Re: Celtics
 

[ QUOTE ]
WTF @ tonight's game [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Doc must be pooping his pants after that one. Possibly the worst end of game sequence I've ever seen. Never mind letting the lead slip, that's bound to happen with this team, and the Nets are a better squad. But jesus christ. Pierce's 3 was ill-adviced (Daily Dime thinks they were going for a 2-for-1, which I agree. Makes sense given Pierce's hot hand, but once the pass gets bobbled, though, reset and just find a way to get 2 points). Then THEY LET 10 SECONDS TICK. First of all, Doc has to tell everyone to foul if they don't get the rebound. Then, when they do get the rebound, you need to be yelling FOUL, FOUL, FOUL. Inexcusable.

Then wtf @ the whole last possesion.

Re: Celtics
 

The whole last quarter was hard to watch. The Celts had been aggressive offensively all game then settled into the old "give the ball to Pierce, let him create" mode. Pierce was making ill advised passes, taking bad shots, generally just looked terrible out there whereas he was unstoppable the first 3 quarters.

Also, Doc left Telfair in the game too long. Up 15 they were in cruise control and then Jason Kidd just dominated a 5 minute stretch hitting a couple 3's and basically making Telfair look foolish. Telfair can drive but he can't defend and he can't pass and he can't shoot. Why can't we get a decent point guard? Every point guard that comes in just makes the Celts look silly, wheter it is Kidd, Chris Paul, or even Jameer Nelson.

Last nights game was very frustrating to watch. Tony Allen should never be on the court. Jefferson looked good offensively but still has to learn how to play defense and he has to stop traveling so much, he takes 10 steps before every move it seems like.

Ryan Gomes might be their 2nd best player.