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New SH-player seeking multiple advise
<font color="red"> About me: </font> I have been playing full ring games for a little more than 1½ years and have been a pretty decent winning player. About 3 weeks ago I decided to start out on my SH experience. I read some posts around here and started playing with close attention to this preflop strategy: Chart_version2. I started playing 0.5/1 but after about 500 hands I went to 1/2. After 3000+ hands at 1/2 with a BB/100 of about 5+ I went to 2/4. I know my relatively high win rate on 1/2 could very much be due to a good run, but I didn't want to spend too much time there if I could go to 2/4 and still be a winner. BUT my 2/4 experience is not good at the moment. Maybe it is bad luck but when I think of it I really think I need much improvement on my HU play and probably in a lot other circumstances.
My stats on 1/2 are (3100 hands): VP$IP / PFR / Total AF / W$WSF / WTSD / W$SD / BB per 100 22.2 / 15.6 / 2.4 / 43.0 / 38.2 / 55.0 / 5.1 and VP$SB / Fold SB to steal / Fold BB to steal / Att. to steal 31.5 / 91.4 / 53.4 / 36.4 My stats on 2/4 are (7900 hands): 25.9 / 17.2 / 2.4 / 39.3 / 35.4 / 52.0 / -0.72 and 40.2 / 86.7 / 54.3 / 34.6 Yesterday I was actually fighting my way up on a positive BB/100 on 2/4 but then I had a bad run and lost about $300. I'm worried that I'm actually a loosing player. However, it is my intention to start posting a lot to get your valuable feedback. The following hands are actually from a very short (32 hands) 1/2 session I played this morning. I think they illustrate some of my problems. I will be looking into my 2/4 sessions to find hands that I have trouble playing but in the meantime I would very much appreciate your feedback. <font color="green">The hands:</font> The player in hands 2-4 that I'm against was about 69/7/2.71 but only in 14-20 hands, so my impression of him was pretty much a LAG! <font color="blue">Hand 1 </font> Prima Poker skin Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $1/$2 6 players Converter Stack sizes: UTG: $95.79 UTG+1: $79.65 CO: $100.00 Button: $17.46 Hero: $96.38 BB: $237.44 Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, CO calls. Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.5SB, 3 players) <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls <font color="aaaaaa">(8.5:1)</font>. Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.75BB, 2 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero folds. Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to BB. Results: Final pot: 4.75BB <font color="blue">Hand 2 </font> Prima Poker skin Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $1/$2 6 players Converter Stack sizes: UTG: $92.54 UTG+1: $15.21 Hero: $96.00 Button: $252.44 SB: $97.67 BB: $68.40 Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls. Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7SB, 3 players) SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, UTG folds. Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 2 players) SB checks, Hero checks. River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, Hero calls <font color="aaaaaa">(5.5:1)</font>. Results: Final pot: 6.5BB <font color="blue"> Hand 3 </font> Prima Poker skin Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $1/$2 6 players Converter Stack sizes: UTG: $69.40 UTG+1: $92.54 CO: $12.59 Hero: $100.00 SB: $252.44 BB: $92.92 Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls. Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players) BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, Hero calls <font color="aaaaaa">(7.5:1)</font>. Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero folds. Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to BB. Results: Final pot: 4.25BB <font color="blue">Hand 4 </font> Prima Poker skin Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $1/$2 5 players Converter Stack sizes: UTG: $103.29 CO: $80.65 Button: $13.71 Hero: $91.88 BB: $238.94 Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero calls <font color="aaaaaa">(2.5:0.5)</font>, BB checks. Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3SB, 3 players) <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls. Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2.5BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls. River: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 2 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls <font color="aaaaaa">(5.5:1)</font>. Results: Final pot: 6.5BB |
Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
your 2/4 stats look ok but 8k hands isn't really converging yet, basically it looks fine.
Hand 1 standard Hand 2 i bet the turn, fold to a c/r. checking the turn and folding the river is fine i suppose, but calling it is heinous. Hand 3 fine Hand 4 i call there, you may see a badly played K or the rivered flush but there's enough donks out there to c/c here and make it viable. Yes 5BB/100 at 1/2 was a good run. |
Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
[ QUOTE ]
your 2/4 stats look ok but 8k hands isn't really converging yet, basically it looks fine. Hand 1 standard Hand 2 i bet the turn, fold to a c/r. checking the turn and folding the river is fine i suppose, but calling it is heinous. Hand 3 fine Hand 4 i call there, you may see a badly played K or the rivered flush but there's enough donks out there to c/c here and make it viable. Yes 5BB/100 at 1/2 was a good run. [/ QUOTE ] Agree on all points. |
Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
You can probably let hand 3 go on the flop.
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Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
[ QUOTE ]
You can probably let hand 3 go on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] Don't do this. The KJ hand I'd never bet the turn and consider folding the river, but calling river is fine versus most. The Q9 hand where you check/called on the river when the flush hit, you should be bet/folding versus most and bet/calling versus maniacs. Basically every better hand bets when you check and Villains that understand what your line means won't bluff into you. If they have an A, a 2 or 4 they'll happily see a free showdown, so you should definitely bet. |
Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
Hand 1: Standard
Hand 2: I probably bet the turn here since draws are coming in. If the draw misses I'm more likely to check the turn to induce a bluff on the river from a missed draw. Hand 3: Standard Hand 4: Bet/fold. I think you said this is against that 60/7/2.7 guy or whatever so I might b/c if he's been pretty aggro lately. |
Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You can probably let hand 3 go on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] Don't do this. The KJ hand I'd never bet the turn and consider folding the river, but calling river is fine versus most. The Q9 hand where you check/called on the river when the flush hit, you should be bet/folding versus most and bet/calling versus maniacs. Basically every better hand bets when you check and Villains that understand what your line means won't bluff into you. If they have an A, a 2 or 4 they'll happily see a free showdown, so you should definitely bet. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly what I was thinking, hand 2 isn't a clear turn bet and hand 4 is bet/fold river. |
Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You can probably let hand 3 go on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] Don't do this. The KJ hand I'd never bet the turn and consider folding the river, but calling river is fine versus most. The Q9 hand where you check/called on the river when the flush hit, you should be bet/folding versus most and bet/calling versus maniacs. Basically every better hand bets when you check and Villains that understand what your line means won't bluff into you. If they have an A, a 2 or 4 they'll happily see a free showdown, so you should definitely bet. [/ QUOTE ] Word up. Good post. |
Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
Scary,
[ QUOTE ] The KJ hand I'd never bet the turn and consider folding the river, but calling river is fine versus most. [/ QUOTE ] I don't really understand this. Here I would mix up my line with about 50% bet turn/check river, 30% check turn, fold river, 20% check turn, call a river bet, mostly depending on my opponent. I think there is significant benefit to betting the turn: A lot of worse hands with a flush draw will call a bet on the turn, folding to a checkraise on the turn won't be that hard, and you can get a fair number of better hands to fold eg: KQ, some Aces with no heart, and sometimes some smaller pairs. I am curious to hear your thoughts as to why you would never bet this turn. |
Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You can probably let hand 3 go on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] Don't do this. [/ QUOTE ] Why is that a bad play? [ QUOTE ] The KJ hand I'd never bet the turn and consider folding the river, but calling river is fine versus most. [/ QUOTE ] Why is that your line, it seems to me that he could have called the flop with overs that he'll now fold or a draw that you don't want to give a free card. |
Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
Hand 3 depends. 1/2 is full of passive players who rarely checkraise the flop without something good. Naturally that's an easy fold.
But theoretically speaking folding KT and all worse hands you might have is folding way too many hands and is easily exploitable. Especially with a decent backdoor you need to see the turn against a tough or merely laggy opponent. |
Re: New SH-player seeking multiple advise
First of all thanks to all for the valuable feedback.
To mvoss: Regarding hand 3 and the flop call. In HEFAP Sklansky and Malmuth say that in HU play you should disregard the highest card and play a long as it wasn't there (or make it a 2). That means that I should play as if I pretty much have two overcards which is 6 outs. However, there is more value to that hand - I have a backdoor straight draw with one gap which in SSHE is estimated to about 1 out. That gives me 7 outs and I have 7.5:1 pot odds which makes it a clear call. Of course now we could argue that we should discount some outs - in this case maybe 1. Still that makes it a call. Furthermore my impression of this guy was LAG so I guess it made the call even easier. |
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