Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

Situations like this come up often.
Is this callable or not?

Tain
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $55.94
UTG+1: $48.75
Hero: $72.50
Button: $45.00
SB: $83.30
BB: $57.25

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $4.5</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero ?

I am playing BB on 2 separate tables and he seems a solid player - not doing anything stupid. However, this small raise looks weird.
Nothing on SB.
Also, I am scared that it will be raised again by SB.

So, fold or call and fold if SB raises again?

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

No, I fold. You are not closing the action. Plus, the SB raises from the SB which means a stronger hand in general.

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

Fold, sb probably has a little stronger hand because he raises OOP and after limpers. I think it's very -EV to call in this situation.

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

As said, fold not closing the action.

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

Fold

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

You'r 22 isn't worth a call here.

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

22 cant stand up on its own, but how about set value?

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

If there is a good chance that SB will just call I'd call this deep for set value. Without a read I'd probably dump it.

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
22 cant stand up on its own, but how about set value?

[/ QUOTE ]
If SB 4-bets we lose our $4.5 without seeing a flop.

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

Yeah, I've got to go with a fold here after the raise and reraise from SB/BB. If SB repops, your odds go down the drain and you've comitted 10 BBs without even getting to see a flop.

However, I raise this almost 100% of the time from the CO with 1 limper ahead. What's with the limp?

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

To me this is a call. Why?

1. You're paying $4 to see a flop. If you could stack one opponent, you'd be getting over $60 out of the deal. Those are some tasty implied odds.

2. You have two opponents with decent hands. The odds that you'll stack someone if you hit are markedly higher than usual.

3. You have the best postflop position. This gives you the ability to best control the pot size postflop, so that if you DO miracle up a deuce, you have an unusually high chance of stacking at least one of these goombahs.

4. If this hand turns out to be funky (like pair v. pair v. pair), you'll have a rather decent chance of stealing the pot on an ace-high flop.

I agree that a four-bet by SB would be most unpleasant, and would chase me away; however, the odds that SB four-bets is pretty small since most opponents almost never four-bet. If SB makes a decent four-bet, you can fold; that's just the cost of doing business in a high-variance hand. Still, this is a dream hand for playing stack-a-donk, and I'm looking to get it all-in if I flop a deuce. NOTE: I'm also looking to fold if I DON'T flop a deuce (unless it looks very likely that I could steal the pot).

In the future, consider raising preflop in this situation when it gets around to you the first time. Doing so buys you the button, disguises your hand, and buys you all sorts of folding equity on a flop that would otherwise be scary for you. It also better defines your opponents' hands. With several limpers, or without good position, I don't mind overlimping with a tiny pocket pair; with good position and only one limper, I prefer playing it hard.

Re: Pocket 2s facing pre-flop 3-bet
 

I thought about it for a bit and then decided to fold.
Of course a 2 then flopped and I would have stacked both of them. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I'm not sure why I didn't raise first time round.

Re: Pocket 2s facing pre-flop 3-bet
 

Fold.

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

Fold, I call 5 bb or so with pocket anything, but not going to the matresses with only ducks, anything is an overcard.

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, the SB raises from the SB which means a stronger hand in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the reason why you should call. SB still has a relatively wide range (meaning he's not 4-betting very often at all), but BB almost always has a monster and you really want to see this flop 3-handed. If there's a reason to fold it's purely b/c you're not closing the action, although the first raiser still has a wide enough range that after get re-raised he's not 4-betting very many hands.

Don't look at is as "I have 22 I'm surely beat." Look at it like you have really good implied odds. Fold AQ/AJ, pretty much any other non-pair, and fold 22 if the raise was to 7 or 8+, but the effective stack of the SB (and BB) is plenty big for you to call.

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

It's got to be close. Most of the time we miss, we don't always get the stacks when we hit, sometimes we hit and lose, and sometimes SB 4-bets. If anything swings it to a call, it's probably our good position.

Re: Pocket 2s fang pre-flop 3-bet
 

call all day - fold if we don't see the flop for $4.5

but don't fold we have implied odds here going through the roof could possibly triple through if we catch a set (say they have AK each and an Ace flops or one has AA one has KK)

BB surely has a monster pair and we're at least taking him to valuetown if we hit.

we gotta make $45 to break even on this call - there is $129 we could be playing for and if we call and SB calls there's only another $30 to make up the rest is profit.

If we can't get $30 out of both these guys between them when we flop a set here something is very wrong.