Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

NL100, effective stack size 70, full ring - 10 handed.

Folded around to button who raises to 3.5, I call in the small blind with KK. Big Blind folds. Pot 8.0.

Flop QJ3 with 2 clubs. I check-call 8.0. Pot 24.0.

Turn 6. I check-call 24.0. Pot 72.0.

River 8. I check, he bets enough to put me allin, (my last $35, getting 3-1).


1. Do I need to call here (mostly due to the way I played the hand)?

2. Should I have bet out on the turn and folded to a raise?

I realize obviously this is not the standard way to play KK.

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

Reads on opponent:

1. I usually reraise here preflop.

2. QJ against a button, especially if he is aggressive, is pretty dangerous territory. KA, 109, K10, club draws are amongst a myriad of problematic hands. Obv., [censored] like JJ, QQ, QJ are plausible holdings that have you beat already. If you're going to check (which I don't do here), you should be check raising and getting him all in there with his QA, KQ and folding his draws/paying for them. You'll get value from QA/KQ because a lot of people will assuming you are on a flush draw/straight draw. If you bet and he pushes, you still should call...though it would give me pause and if I had a good read on his play, I may lay it down.

2. If you bet here on the turn, you are basically committed, so no, don't fold to a raise.

3. Call the river because of pot odds. He still has KQ, QA enough here to make things profitable.

This is a pretty inescapable hand at 70BB (maybe not so at 100BB and definitely not so at 100BB+) and, from the looks of it, he had QJ? Hopefully he had 109 so you could learn from your mistake here, which basically was not betting out the flop.

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

Yea you should probably call that. The 9T draw missed, and AQ is a likely hand... in addition to the good odds you mentioned, this has to be +EV.

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

As played you have to call.

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

Is there a reason you played this so slow?

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

re-raise PF, c/r AI turn, c/c river or push yourself.

Doesn't matter.

True

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The 9T draw missed

[/ QUOTE ]

That draw actually did get there on the river. Either way, I'd still call this river given how you underrepresented your hand and you're getting good odds on the river call.

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

Yes, I usually reraise preflop here as well.
I played it slow to check-raise the flop, as I expected a continuation bet due to his aggressive nature. However, I did not like the flop enough to checkraise, and I did not hate it enough to fold.

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I usually reraise preflop here as well.
I played it slow to check-raise the flop, as I expected a continuation bet due to his aggressive nature. However, I did not like the flop enough to checkraise, and I did not hate it enough to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This last part is more of an emotional argument than a logical one.

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

Results in white below:

<font color="white"> He had QJs. It turns out it was inevitable for me to lose my stack this hand, because I am fairly certain he is going to call a pot size reraise preflop with position. The only way I could get away without losing my stack this hand, I guess would be to reraise preflop and then lead the flop for 3/4 of my stack and then fold to a raise but then I lose 25 instead of 70, which might be better, but I am not sure because sometimes I am still folding the winner, and I am winning less when he has nothing. </font>

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

if u are sure he calls a psr-r pf, why didn't you do it?

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

complete results oriented thinking...

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The 9T draw missed

[/ QUOTE ]

That draw actually did get there on the river. Either way, I'd still call this river given how you underrepresented your hand and you're getting good odds on the river call.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh yeah lol.

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

You definitely have to call the river as played, but a check-raise all-in on turn would've been even better as by that point the pot is so big he's calling with many worse made hands + draws.

If you're afraid that re-raising pf with define your hand too much, you need to simply start 3-betting more often with a wider range against aggressive opponents that like to steal. Tough in the beginning, gets hugely profitable as you go along and get better.

Kirk

Re: Do I need to call the river with KK here?
 

I checked the flop for pot control. (obviously it did not work).

Does betting the flop really prevent me from losing my stack here?

All I think betting the flop does is make him fold when he has nothing, and I still lose all my money when he has either AA, QQ, JJ or QJ.