Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

I went up to Seneca Niagara again last night. The room was as busy as I've ever seen it, I think all 25 tables were running and the wait list was 20+ deep for some games.

Anyways, I played some O/8 until my normal 2/5 NL game came up. I sat and it became immediately obvious that the 3,4 and 8 seats all knew each other. In fact they refered to themselves as "partners". I was like OK, whatever.

Well, it became a problem pretty fast. They shared the same bankroll. They would pass chips back and forth regularly. They would raise and reraise to get others out of pots and then check down. It was pretty sick. '

It didn't help that for the previous 2 hours before this, I hadn't won a single pot. After almost 2 hours with these guys and their antics and I had it. I was going to find a floor. I got up for a bathroom break and was going to talk to someone, but when I came back the "partners" had decided to leave. They were probably up over a grand.

What the hell do you do in situations like this? If I call the floor to the table, I look like a total nit and piss off everyone. If I don't I'm essentially playing at a huge disadvantage. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if these guys had a signal system worked out.

Thanks - Brian

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

1. Tell the management your concerns. Management, not the floor person.
2. Don't play in a game with them if the house decides to allow them to continue.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

If you think it's very obvious, Do not wait a few hours to actually tell someone. Point it out right away so that they can be observed, or so they can check the tape and watch for patterns when they are in pots together.

Also, they can't be that good of a team if they were only up like 2 buy-ins... or is Seneca 2/5 still capped at 200?

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

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Do not wait a few hours to actually tell someone.

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Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

yea tell someone right away and if you aren't going to do that or they don't do something about it don't play in the game.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

Isn't there a rule against passing chips at that casino? If this happens again call the floor over and tell that person exactly what's been going on. If one of those players asks if you're accusing them of team play/cheating say 'Yes'. Don't even think of yourself as a nit, for crying out loud. If management doesn't do anything about it leave the game while telling everybody else they're stupid to continue playing with cheaters at the table. There's no reason to be shy at all under circumstances that you've described.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

Wait a couple hands after you notice, get up as if you're going to the bathroom and go tell the floor and ask him to keep an eye on the game. Say, "I'm on table X and the 3, 4, and 8 seats look like they're colluding. They are raising people out of pots and checking down - and sharing chips."

The floor should then swing by and keep an eye on the game, and if he sees it he will say something - but his mere presence may prevent them from doing it.

If he doesn't resolve it and it continues, find a poker room with a competent staff.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

The floor is part of the problem in a lot of cardrooms. The floor people at certain places, will just filter you into the games with four people playing together, then they might get a cut from the other theifs.
As for "checking the tape" this is a joke. If you think there is collusion at the 2-5 table and ask to have the tape looked over you will be laughed at. Maybee they might do it for the higher games, but I have asked to check the tape twice, and each time I was told they couldn't. It's to the point where the people cheating know you can't do anything but move to another table. They feel pretty secure stealing your money..
The reason so many people will try to cheat is the lack fear they have of being caught. Because the floor are friends with these guys, they see them everyday, they interact with them. Soon, you as the tourist become the enemy, and there new found friends they look after. In turn the floor gets a cut, or a good tip. IF there is no way to catch the cheats, or the floor, your screwed. good luck checking the tape, at best you will be told no. You might even get laughed at.
I only play certain games in AC now. although I have become pretty good at sniffing out cheats, the more you know, the less you want to play. it's sad, almost as sad, as the life of a poker cheat.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

Cheating happens. Yesterday, a guy next to me found an obvious mark on an ace. He'd seen the mark on an earlier hand from the other end of the table. When he got dealt the card, he told the dealer. Floor switched decks but seemed unconcerned.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

If the casino does nothing find out the government entity that is responsible for that casino and report the casino. Then follow up. There are casinos that get their rooms shut down.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The floor is part of the problem in a lot of cardrooms. The floor people at certain places, will just filter you into the games with four people playing together, then they might get a cut from the other theifs.
As for "checking the tape" this is a joke. If you think there is collusion at the 2-5 table and ask to have the tape looked over you will be laughed at. Maybee they might do it for the higher games, but I have asked to check the tape twice, and each time I was told they couldn't. It's to the point where the people cheating know you can't do anything but move to another table. They feel pretty secure stealing your money..
The reason so many people will try to cheat is the lack fear they have of being caught. Because the floor are friends with these guys, they see them everyday, they interact with them. Soon, you as the tourist become the enemy, and there new found friends they look after. In turn the floor gets a cut, or a good tip. IF there is no way to catch the cheats, or the floor, your screwed. good luck checking the tape, at best you will be told no. You might even get laughed at.
I only play certain games in AC now. although I have become pretty good at sniffing out cheats, the more you know, the less you want to play. it's sad, almost as sad, as the life of a poker cheat.

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What you're saying is why I waited so long to do anything. These 3 guys are always in the room. I've been there probably 2 dozen times in the past couple months. I've always seen them, every time. They know every dealer, every floor person.

I got the feeling that had I said something nothing would be done because these guys were friends with everyone there.

Plus they kept saying they were on the list for 5/10 and were just waiting, so I figured it wouldn't be long and they were gone. Well, it turned out to be over 2 hours. Next time I'll just ask for a table change. It was stupid to just hang out waiting.

Thanks for the advice everyone,

Brian

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

Brian,
I think just leaving the table is the wrong answer. These people are regulars and it continues, I agree with others, report to management. if they fail to do anything, report them to the gaming commission. The main reason that this stuff continues is because no one is willing to call them out.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

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I agree with others, report to management. if they fail to do anything, report them to the gaming commission. The main reason that this stuff continues is because no one is willing to call them out.

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Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

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I agree with others, report to management. if they fail to do anything, report them to the gaming commission. The main reason that this stuff continues is because no one is willing to call them out.

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True. If I see it again I will. Like I said above, these guys are there all the time. This was the first time I'd seen them all at the same table like this.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

If you don't nip something like this in the bud, it will fester and grow. Pretty soon everyone will think it's all right and other teams will form.

You have two choices:

1. Inform management, and if they do nothing or choose to overlook it then,

2. You have to do something yourself. You have to speak up and say things like,

a. Stop passing chips
b. Why do you three always check it down
c. Ask to see their hands every single time
d. make a stink, and let it be known you aren't putting up with it.

If management continues to do nothing after you've done your thing, then you're wasting your time. I'd look for another place to play.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

Here's a question for anyone out there.

Let's say you say something and management does nothing. Is it correct to make a small scene? (I'm not talking about getting thrown out or anything)

ex: Make a statement just loud enough for other tables to hear. I refuse to continue playing here when its obvious that (point out the three players) are colluding and the management here has refused to do anything about it since they are regulars and freindly with the staff. Then take your chips and cashout.

Would this tactic be counter productive or not? Why? I am sure there is a good counterpoint to doing this, I just can't think of one right now.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

I like the making a scene part but I do not believe it will be as productive as you want it to be - I would do what Red Stine proposed:
1> Say something when they pass chips
2> Ask to see their hands when checked down

I would also talk to the poker room manager (not the floors) - I have not played at that casino to know of the manager spends any time in the room or not - if the manager doesnt spend much time in the room it would be good to say something to him if you dont get any sort of action from the floor people as he will be disconnected from it enough to have a more objective view - at least in my experience poker room mgrs who are more hands off take complaints more seriously as they hear less of them due to not being in the room much and wnat to do the most with the little feedback they receive from customers (and not employees)

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

Don't go to tribal casinos.

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

Im curious what time this was that you were playing?

Re: Dealing with obvious colusion at the table?
 

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Im curious what time this was that you were playing?

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Last Friday night about 8pm - 2am. I was at this particular table from about 10-1am.