Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

I have been think about this topic, because I don't do it as much as other players. What are the reasons to lead into someone who put in the last bet/raise on the previous betting round? I see weak players make weak leads as bluffs, and I usually raise with any two.

Do people do this with draws so they can "set the price" to draw? Lead with a monster to try and induce a raise? Get information from the opponent? Or as blocking bets with mrginal hands?

What are the main concepts/thought processes when doing this?

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

I usually lead my stronger hands into the raisers just because generally it looks weak, esp when its against a player who c-bets a lot

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

Compared to Party, it seems like Full Tilt players lead into the raiser way more often (anyone else find that?). I usually lead monsters and sometimes FDs, sometimes lead with the intention of 3-betting big draws.

I keep seeing a bunch of Full Tilt players do stuff like call a raise in the blinds with stuff like AT, hit a A82 or Txx board and then lead with it. That's a pretty bad line, imo, because when you're ahead you miss out on the PFR's c-bet by folding out their trash hands, and when you're behind you inflate the pot and still have pretty much no idea where you stand.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

I almost never, ever lead into the raiser to be honest....
I c/r alot though. and b/3b when i am aggressor alot too.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

i almost never donkbet, i cant think of a case where i do it as a rule in fact.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

I usually do it if I have a monster and the flop likely hit him. Set or two-pair on an A high board or I flopped a broadway straight ect. I'm looking to get raised here.

If I think the flop missed him and it missed me too, I'll sometimes do it.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

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I usually do it if I have a monster and the flop likely hit him. Set or two-pair on an A high board or I flopped a broadway straight ect. I'm looking to get raised here.

If I think the flop missed him and it missed me too, I'll sometimes do it.

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In situation one, wont he bet his monster as well as the off chance he has air, you get a bet from that. In the second example, why not let his cbet and then steal that too?

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

You lead because you want him to raise and pot comitt himself. That way you have a chance to take an entire stack. It by far offsets the chance you'll win one psb on the flop.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

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You lead because you want him to raise and pot comitt himself. That way you have a chance to take an entire stack. It by far offsets the chance you'll win one psb on the flop.

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so you are saying that if i flop a set in a raise pot against a guy with AA and c/r flop and lead turn i dont get his stack, but if i b/3bai i do? Thats nonsense.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

Yes, that's what I'm saying. More so with a hand like AQ or AK, where he flop top pair A-kicker.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

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Yes, that's what I'm saying. More so with a hand like AQ or AK, where he flop top pair A-kicker.

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so why ever b/3b a draw? shouldnt we always c/r and lead turn since people fold TPTK to this move every time?

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

b/3b a draw so your hand's disguised when you have a monster, and plus you usually b/3b monster draws where you're ahead or slightly behind anyway.

I'm not saying people fold TPTK to c/r cont turn every time, I'm just saying this line makes the pot smaller and easier to get away from.

P.S. I don't hate the c/r cont line, it's not bad at all. Just stating the pros and cons of the b/3b.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

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I usually do it if I have a monster and the flop likely hit him. Set or two-pair on an A high board or I flopped a broadway straight ect. I'm looking to get raised here.

If I think the flop missed him and it missed me too, I'll sometimes do it.

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In situation one, wont he bet his monster as well as the off chance he has air, you get a bet from that. In the second example, why not let his cbet and then steal that too?

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Is a TPGK on an A high board a monster? I guess what I'm trying to do is represent a weak Ace in a kind of "I got an ace and I don't think you have one Mr PFRer" way. I think leading induces a raise here and doesn't scare a lone Ace nearly as much as a c/r.

For the 2nd example (raggy board, I missed and think he did too) I don't like a c/r. When it works you make more but if you run into an overpair, it can cost up to 4 times as much. I'm really looking to steal the pot cheaply for maybe 1/2- 2/3 PSB

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

I lead a lot of stuff into a preflop raiser. Sets and good draws intending to bet 3 bet; mediocre made hands especially if I think the raiser's reaction to a lead will be easy to read; also bluffs or weak draws on occasion, including low pocket pairs that miss and gutshots. Especially when the raiser has trash, he owns you when you call w/ 22, lead every set and check-fold every other time.

Majority of the time I lead it's intending to threebet with a big hand. But I try to throw in non-monsters/give up if played with hands often enough that most people either make a mistake by raising the big hands too much or folding to the weak hands.

I checkraise sometimes too with all those hands, again mostly big hands and draws, but other hands often enough for balance.

In general I try to checkraise or lead often enough to protect my checks so I don't get cbet to death, but I think defending against the cbet OOP is pretty tough and I don't really do it well.

I don't think lead or c-raise is unqualifiably "better." It depends on what your opponent does too much of, how he perceives your tendencies, etc.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

Leading into the PFR is okay (both w. or without a hand) and should be a part of balancing your play for when you DO lead w. sets.

I think leading into solid/in line players occassionally is good. It gets harder when they bluff raise you more frequently.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

I lead a lot HU vs pfr's when I have a mediocre hand (vs the pfr's possible range) and I want to take it down on the flop. c/c with those type of hands sucks.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

It depends on relative position and whether the player typically makes a c-bet or if he checks. If he is going to check, then I want to make sure that I bet. If I am in good relative position, there are more players in the pot, and he will make a c-bet, I will check and let him hang himself ( and maybe a caller in a multi way pot), then I base my raise on the texture of the board. If you lead out, you may lose this money.

The times I will lead out are when I have a mediocre hand to see where I am at. This will work unless the PF raiser will raise on a bluff too often. If most of the times he play he raises only when he has a hand, folds when he misses or calls his mediocre or draws, then it is good to bet out.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

One spot where I see a ton of players check, but you should almost always lead, is when you flop a set on a drawy flop, and the pot is 3 or 4-way. ESPECIALLY 4-way.

The PFR just is very often not going to bet unless he has a good draw or a good pair here so checking is terrible because it sucks to have a flop like that get checked around.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

When do I lead into the preflop raiser on the flop?
Generally never. People generally cbet, so I want his cbet money in the pot before I making a play for the pot. So I'll c/r or c/c with any hand I want to continue with. The exception is if I think the preflop raiser won't cbet e.g. super passive player or multiway pot.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

A lot of you are thinking about donking when you have a strong hand. That's fine as far as it goes, but you need to donk with ATC too. There are lots of players who will auto-cbet and double barrel with air but fold if donked into. You should frequently donk into these players with a hand that missed the flop, but has a chance to improve (OC on up) or with mediocre hands that can't stand a second barrel. Then donk your monsters against aggressive players, or in multiway pots where the majority of players are too stupid to realize leading into multiple players is a huge sign of strength, or when you have been donking a lot so they honestly can't tell.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

I definitely donk sets into multi-way pots.

I usually donk combo-draws, looking to 3-bet AI.

Occasionally I donk air in a HU pot just so that they don't put me on a monster every time.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

Leading with mediocre hands isn't good. Your aim should be to get to a showdown cheaply. Check/calling might make for tougher decisions, but it is +EV.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

Yes, but leading with mediocre hands can get you to showdown cheaply if you have good relative position and the raiser folds. You don't always get raised when you bet out.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

I agree with that. However, leading with junk is a good play to mix it up with.

Re: Question- when do you lead into a raiser?
 

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Yes, but leading with mediocre hands can get you to showdown cheaply if you have good relative position and the raiser folds. You don't always get raised when you bet out.

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OK I was thinking more about HU. Multiway, a CB from a hand that whiffed is less likely, making leading more profitable relative to c/c