Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

6-max $1k.

Okay here's the story. Villian is a 33/23/2.9... my impression has been of a good TAG but maybe a little too aggro postflop this session.

We had a previous hand where: he raised preflop, I reraised in the blinds with 77 and he called with 55. Flop was KK3 I bet a standard amount, and he min-raised. I check 7 turn he checked behind. 5 on river I value bet he shoved I called. So I stacked him for over 100bb's.

The next time we tangled, I raised TT and he reraised on the button. I called. The flop came 653, he fired, I called. Turn 6, I checked he fired 3/4 pot $500 and had $410 left. I deliberated, and finally folded.

So I suspect he's been pushing a little too hard... maybe a combination of tilt and/or him playing back at me. And then this happens:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($1494.52)
Hero ($2787.28)
SB ($1016)
BB ($1427.47)
UTG ($1000)
MP ($1032)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $35</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $35, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($85) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $65</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $225</font>, UTG calls $900 (All-In), Hero ???

Pot odds: $665 to call to win $965+85+225= 1275:665, 1.92 to 1 means I need 34% equity for breakeven.

Giving him AA, sets, AK, KQ, plus bigger flush draws AJ, AT plus JTcc and JThh.

Board: Kc Qh 3h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 28.9154 % 28.87% 00.04% { 9h7h }
Hand 2: 71.0846 % 71.04% 00.04% { QQ+, 33, AKs, AhJh, AhTh, KQs, JcTc, JhTh, AKo, KQo }

So it seems like equity-wise I cant profitably call plus even if he's bluffing I still am behind and need to hit. Also, it would show I'm not afraid to get my stack in the middle and maybe get him to back off a bit.

My question is then do I take the small equity hit to try and bust him again and presumably put him on tilt?

If he wins it might take him off tilt though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

fold, but with history i think you get 3-bet on this flop A LOT. and not just by big hands, hands like AK/AQ weaker kings, JT, and a whole bunch of stuff.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

You're asking if you should call an all-in against a good player when you're gauranteed to have the worst of it.

I vote no.

Then again, I rode the short bus to school.

(p.s. why do you think this will put him on tilt? we've all gotten stacked before...doesn't necessarily induce monkey-tilt. Esp not if he's good, as u say he is.)

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

i only go on tilt if i make a really bad play not if lady lucks puts on her strap on so dont bother(well do i want your money) and btw i had AA with a heart

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i only go on tilt if i make a really bad play not if lady lucks puts on her strap on so dont bother(well do i want your money) and btw i had AA with a heart

[/ QUOTE ]

lol nice. Thanks for the reply.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

lead three bet all in plzzz

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

since when is 33/22 a good TAG?

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

[ QUOTE ]
lead three bet all in plzzz

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm on the button.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

[ QUOTE ]
since when is 33/22 a good TAG?

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, I'm don't consider rigid borderlines between TAG/LAG etc. Whatever you want to call a 33/22/2.9 that's seemingly a good player it's fine by me.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold, but with history i think you get 3-bet on this flop A LOT. and not just by big hands, hands like AK/AQ weaker kings, JT, and a whole bunch of stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I think this flop is a clear call. Keep in mind that he's often checking weak made hands here to induce bluffs, which means he'll more often than usual have air or a monster. E.g he often checks KT or AQ IMO.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

well, u arent getting horrible odds too call right there, u need about 2:1 right there too call if all your cards are live, u said u were getting 1.9:1 so thats pretty much the same thing and if u think that u can win a lot more by tilting him then i dont think its neccessarly a horrible play, and its a call i might consider making hoping my outs are live. And even if he wins he might be a lot more willing too give u action later when u do flop a huge hand because he prolly wont respect ur game. Also, calling off is something that should be avoided, if u were the shover in this spot it would be a lot better since u would have some fold equity.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

fold he has redraws likely

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
since when is 33/22 a good TAG?

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, I'm don't consider rigid borderlines between TAG/LAG etc. Whatever you want to call a 33/22/2.9 that's seemingly a good player it's fine by me.

[/ QUOTE ]

You understand the T in TAG is for tight though right?

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

Call it's more fun that way.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

Pfft, whatever, you're barely losing money. Just type GAMBOOOOOOOOLL in the chat box, and call. Nobody will bluff you for a while.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You understand the T in TAG is for tight though right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but what's the G stand for? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I was more worried that people would equate LAG with "bad player" when that's not neccessarily the case. I'm sure I dont need to tell you that you can have an excellent player and an awful player both with the exact same 33/22 stats.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

Fold, lots of the time you will be againest a bigger flush draw/set etc. and really bad shape.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold, lots of the time you will be againest a bigger flush draw/set etc. and really bad shape.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep I already accounted for basically the worst case scenario in the Pokerstove equity in the original post.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

Interesting post. As it's 6 handed, you don't know how long he will play, and you don't know he is prone to tilt in any case I tend to think you cannot expect to get the equity back. It's not like there is a huge fish with a big stack at the table and you wanted to increase the effective stack against them. Still, it's not the worst call and I'm sure I've made a lot worse [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting post. As it's 6 handed, you don't know how long he will play, and you don't know he is prone to tilt in any case I tend to think you cannot expect to get the equity back. It's not like there is a huge fish with a big stack at the table and you wanted to increase the effective stack against them. Still, it's not the worst call and I'm sure I've made a lot worse [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but it's not a huge amount of equity either. We figure to be around the high 20's and need 34% for break-even.

Re: Taking an -EV hit to tilt a 2p2\'er?
 

"Yes, but what's the G stand for? "

Gangsta obviously : )