Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

How do you adjust to someone like this? Villain is 44/40/2. He's been 3 betting a TON (on both tables I'm on, actually), sometimes showing hands like 97o when people fold.

All I can think of is to 4-bet preflop, but that seems a little insane, as he will just fold his crap hands and push good ones. Any thoughts?


No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $173.15
UTG+1: $37.90
Hero: $464.25
Button: $584.45
SB: $311.90
BB: $473.55

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $16</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $48</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($102, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($102, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $67</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $67 returned to Button.

Results:
Final pot: $102

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

I would 4-bet, but I would also 4-bet hands worse than this as a bluff occasionally too. This is a high-variance strategy of course.

Another option is just to call PF and try to get it in on any reasonable flop.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

Id say youre ahead on the turn, he doesnt look like the type to check behind any piece of the flop. I'd have bet the turn probably, or try to be a hero (call turn, call river except for some cards).

On second thought,
I'd just try to play back at him with any opportunity. With that flop i'd go for the c/r, he'll miss enough. Could even c/r the turn, though he is more liable to call you light.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

I'd 4 bet if he was really out of line (and call a push). You have to take a stand and you have a solid hand.

Also, when I get a pain in the ass on my direct left I usually try to find another table.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd 4 bet if he was really out of line (and call a push). You have to take a stand and you have a solid hand.

Also, when I get a pain in the ass on my direct left I usually try to find another table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm thinking this is what I should have done!

He showed J7o here after I folded BTW.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
How do you adjust to someone like this? Villain is 44/40/2. He's been 3 betting a TON (on both tables I'm on, actually), sometimes showing hands like 97o when people fold.

All I can think of is to 4-bet preflop, but that seems a little insane, as he will just fold his crap hands and push good ones. Any thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]
Does this sound anything like:

"How do you adjust to someone like this? Villain is 35/27/2. He steals at least 50%+, sometimes showing hands like 97o when people fold.

All I can think of is to 3-bet preflop, but that seems a little insane, as he will just fold his crap hands and push good ones."

The thing is that villain is 3-betting so liberally that he has plenty more crap hands than good ones, so you should be able to make more stealing his 3-bet than you lose when your 4-bet is called. I agree with those that call for a 4-bet preflop. I'd say to around $200, although that doesn't let you get away from a big push the way a raise to $150 would I think you want to end this hand early out of position.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

I'm a bit confused as to what you feared on the turn. His bet looks pretty weak to me, although I suppose he is quite passive postflop.

I notice with a lot of these guys that they slow right down post flop if they don't like what they see. They are all crazy preflop, but will only bet hard if hey hit post.

Here, he clearly fears a c-bet steal with the K out there, so I'm surprised you thought your 88 was bad here (although in the heat of battle a fold is perfectly understandable oop). Given stack sizes I would have thought a call is ok here followed by a river check as he's probably not bluffing at any diamond/A/K river.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

why call preflop if you're going to fold that turn?

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

its obvious from his numbers that he 3 bets a [censored] of hands. 88 is way ahead of his range for the 3 bet, and he might even fold 99-JJ for a few times before adjusting.

FWIW, I just think 4 betting him here because he will fold most of the garbage he is 3 betting with and he has some of that garbage a high percentage of the time here and we can take the pot down now.

If he called I would have to say check fold any high carded flops, and hope to spike a set. Be very cautiaus (awful spelling)

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
why call preflop if you're going to fold that turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I played the hand badly. I'm not used to playing against villains quite like this.

I had folded to his 3bets a couple times already, thought I needed to make a stand, then I totally wussed out.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

I'd call him down.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

If you had AA/KK/QQ/AK, would you just have called his 3-bet? Probably not. Your 88 is almost like having a big pocket pair against his range. Yes, he will fold his garbage, but do you really want to play a big pot OOP against someone who could hold any two card?

By just calling his 3-bet he can put you on a range of hands but you have no idea what he has. You'll be at a huge disadvantage if you let him see a flop.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

You could limp reraise or limp call. I know everyone hates limping, but the guy is raising almost half his hands, and 3 betting a lot of them.

88 really isn't something I want to gamble with too much, especially when you are this deep.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
88 really isn't something I want to gamble with too much, especially when you are this deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither of us is particularly deep, this is NL 400.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
why call preflop if you're going to fold that turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

folding is fine cuz villain obv has 97o

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would 4-bet, but I would also 4-bet hands worse than this as a bluff occasionally too. This is a high-variance strategy of course.

Another option is just to call PF and try to get it in on any reasonable flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you mean all-in or leaving some behind? playing post-flop is going to be difficult if you leave yourself a bet. but i guess pushing is transparently not KK+, which is a downside.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

Is 44/40/2 really a tough lag? To me that sounds a ton like a money spewing fish.

Edit: I def cram here and I cram at least like 2/3 te hands I open with if he really is three betting liek every time you open

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
88 really isn't something I want to gamble with too much, especially when you are this deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither of us is particularly deep, this is NL 400.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad... I thought you played 200NL

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is 44/40/2 really a tough lag? To me that sounds a ton like a money spewing fish.

Edit: I def cram here and I cram at least like 2/3 te hands I open with if he really is three betting liek every time you open

[/ QUOTE ]

No [censored].

I'd be pushing a lot of Aces preflop against this guy.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

Uh, why are you folding the turn, jesus.

Shoving preflop is hot if you want to shut him down.

Check calling down is hot if you want to let him bluff his moneys off instead.

Check folding on turn 3 after he checks the flop behind is just shocking, what do you think he has, 33? He bets every hand and now you think he's checking behind a pair bigger than 8s?

Basically, if you're this terrible postflop, shove pre

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

i'd call him down becuase either a) you win
or b) he sees you're calling him with 3rd pair and he has to slow down if he wants to continue winning.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

this deep i like your preflop flat call.

i think you should check turn and then c/c any river against this guy.

you will lose a lot but you will win more.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

call him down, shove pf, do whatever. If you call pf, don't c/f these types of boards post.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is 44/40/2 really a tough lag? To me that sounds a ton like a money spewing fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

These guys are hell to have on your left. He's not an idiot postflop either.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is 44/40/2 really a tough lag? To me that sounds a ton like a money spewing fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

These guys are hell to have on your left. He's not an idiot postflop either.

[/ QUOTE ]

SO SHOVE

and obviously he is an idiot postflop if he checks the flop behind and then bets a turn offsuit three as a bluff, because it would be retarded for anyone to believe that turn bet after he checks flop behind. oh wait...

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

I played with this guy again today at lunch.

Managed to misplay some more hands.

One of note: I open QJ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], he 3bets (obv), I call. (seriously considered shoving though).

Flop Jxx two clubs, I check/call his smallish bet (was planning to CR big if he bet more.

Turn: blank

I check again, he bets, this time I CR pretty big, he calls (!)

River: blank. I shove a little under $200 into the massive pot. He folds.

My thinking: I'm crushing most of his range on the flop, if I lead pot or CR before the pot is big enough, he can get away, due to my weak image from our previous play. So I gambled a little bit by letting him see the turn on a low, flush board when he often has at least one overcard.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

That sounds much better

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

Calling preflop is fine here. you're DS and the pot will be small compared to the size of your stacks.

You're both deepstacked, so why not call the turn and re-evaluate on the river? Then, judging from what he does on the river/what card falls, you can make a plan from there.

You could also reraise here, though if he thinks you are making a play/he can represent the K, he may push (if that's his style on the turn). I haven't seen his play enough to comment here.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
because it would be retarded for anyone to believe that turn bet after he checks flop behind. oh wait...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he would often check AK behind on this flop.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

Arr you can eat pf.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is 44/40/2 really a tough lag? To me that sounds a ton like a money spewing fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

These guys are hell to have on your left. He's not an idiot postflop either.

[/ QUOTE ]

This 3-bet-incredibly-light strategy is very exploitable....unless you fold a lot.

He may not be an idiot post-flop but with so much money going in preflop, it's practically impossible for him to play profitably (even in position) if you are simply way tighter than him preflop.

Against guys like this I wouldn't want to be opening stuff like 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], etc, I would play way tighter preflop, but be a calling station post-flop with anything worth showing down. The more that gets in preflop, the less the post-flop stuff matters.

It's high-vaiance, though, sure.

Re: Tough LAG keeps 3betting me, I have 88.
 

Actual hand: I remembered it wrong!


No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $495
UTG+1: $681.30
CO: $287
Button: $280.20
SB: $110
BB: $1070.85

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $16</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $48</font>, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($102, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $68</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $170</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($442, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero is all-in $277</font>, UTG+1 folds.
Uncalled bets: $277 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $442