QQ hand
 

Party 3/6. BB is 20/7/1.5.

UTG1 raises, I 3bet in MP with QsQh, BB calls, UTG1 calls.

Flop is Td 2s 4c. BB checks, UTG1 bets, I raise, BB 3bets, UTG1 folds, I call.

Turn is 4h. BB bets and I call.

River 5c. BB bets, I raise, BB 3bets, I fold.

Thoughts?

Re: QQ hand
 

Raise the turn, call the river.

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn, call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You registered to say that?

Re: QQ hand
 

I don't like your river raise I would prefer to just call turn, call river.

Re: QQ hand
 

Looks pretty good to me. I think he has JJ or some ATs type hand more than a set, and I don't think he 3 bets the river when you're ahead.

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn, call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You registered to say that?

[/ QUOTE ]

You posted for advice and got it, I fail to see the problem...

I may be over-aggro, but I'll cap the flop, raise the turn and if 3-bet on the turn I'd call down then...

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn, call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You registered to say that?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
MrCharlie
stranger


Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 1

[/ QUOTE ]

nah, he was waiting for the perfect time

Re: QQ hand
 

i would rather raise the turn, but as played, i think you should fold to this 3-bet

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like your river raise I would prefer to just call turn, call river.

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

dont we miss some value doing that?

i dont think this is a set that often and if he 3-bets, we are pretty clearly beat

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like your river raise I would prefer to just call turn, call river.

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

dont we miss some value doing that?

i dont think this is a set that often and if he 3-bets, we are pretty clearly beat

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the same thing but then I looked closer and I think it's a call unless we have a great read that he wouldn't 3 bet us without a better hand.

Assuming we're ahead 60% on the river, and we're risking 1 to win 1, I think he only has to 3 bet us with a worse hand somewhere around 1 in 80 times to make raising incorrect, since the pot is 16BB once he does 3 ball.

Re: QQ hand
 

I've been reading 2+2 for a while and just recently registered. Yes, that was my first post.

I am just starting out.

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been reading 2+2 for a while and just recently registered. Yes, that was my first post.

I am just starting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry if I that came off badly.

I was just venting frustrations that I've had in this forum where people post one line about how they would have played it and post no reasons why. There's a certain few posters who can get away with doing that because they are very well known and when they post a line without giving reasons, it's usually best to try think about why they think that's the best play. However, that list of posters is very short, and most posters should give reasoning when they post what they would have done in a hand.

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been reading 2+2 for a while and just recently registered. Yes, that was my first post.

I am just starting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

don't let some of these asses bother you. But I do suggest that you give reasons for the plays you think are correct.

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would rather raise the turn, but as played, i think you should fold to this 3-bet

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I waited until the river is that I can easily fold to a 3bet on that street, whereas on the turn I'm much more likely to get 3bet with a worse hand.

Why do you think a turn raise is better?

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would rather raise the turn, but as played, i think you should fold to this 3-bet

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I waited until the river is that I can easily fold to a 3bet on that street, whereas on the turn I'm much more likely to get 3bet with a worse hand.

Why do you think a turn raise is better?

[/ QUOTE ]

i guess maybe because some scary river cards could hit, but i dont know if it really matters and i like your reasoning here too, i would probably be more inclined to call down a turn 3-bet

Re: QQ hand
 

Ok, thanks.

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like your river raise I would prefer to just call turn, call river.

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

dont we miss some value doing that?

i dont think this is a set that often and if he 3-bets, we are pretty clearly beat

[/ QUOTE ]

Given this guys stats and they way the preflop and the flop played out his hand range is so small {TT, JJ, maybe AA-QQ and ATs}. While there are a lot more combos JJ than TT this guy appears passive enough from his stats that he might not be 3-betting the flop with JJ *all* of the time. Thus it is going to lower the times we are ahead on the turn/river enough that I would rather call.

Of course this comes down to assumptions of hand ranges and weighting factors blah blah. That being said I could be wrong, but I think the decision between calling/raising is a close one either way.

If you are going to raise though I like raising the river more than the turn for reasons Justin has already pointed out and that villain is going to have 2-5 outs when behind on the turn so we don't need to worry about letting him 'draw cheaply'.

Re: QQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've been reading 2+2 for a while and just recently registered. Yes, that was my first post.

I am just starting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

don't let some of these asses bother you. But I do suggest that you give reasons for the plays you think are correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, with the quote.

Re: QQ hand
 

what about this doesn't spell set??? hero showed clear aggression preflop and flop...

the clearest tell for me that it's a set here is the check, 3-bet as opposed to just a normal check raise...

however there is some outside chances of JJ, which he beats, but more often than not it's a set IMO...

Re: QQ hand
 

A neutralish postflop player will rarely 3-bet here without the goods and will call you down with the worst hand. I like it.

Re: QQ hand
 

I would just call the river and then chide myself when he shows 99 for missing bets. Better than chiding myself for raising thin, not getting to showdown or see his hand, plus (meaningless at 3/6) showing my opponents how I love to fold on the river.

-DeathDonkey

Re: QQ hand
 

If we raise the turn are we calling down if three bet?