Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

I had about 10 hands last night playing .25-.50 when I was in the Big Blind and faced a preflop raise with K-x (offsuit card from 2-9). Is there any situation where I would call with this hand? How many bets/opponents would I need in the pot to make this worthwhile?

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

What position was the raise coming from? If the villain on the button does this everytime it's folded around to him, I'd look him up once. With K9s I might even pop him with a re-raise...you have to vary your play so you're not so predictable. If the preflop raise is coming from EP or MP, it should be pretty clear villain has a decent hand and you can fold. Finally, if the action gets folded around to the button and he raises every single time and the SB and you in the BB fold every single time, he'll continue to steal the blinds until you wake up and do something about it! I would.

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

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What position was the raise coming from? If the villain on the button does this everytime it's folded around to him, I'd look him up once. With K9s I might even pop him with a re-raise...you have to vary your play so you're not so predictable. If the preflop raise is coming from EP or MP, it should be pretty clear villain has a decent hand and you can fold. Finally, if the action gets folded around to the button and he raises every single time and the SB and you in the BB fold every single time, he'll continue to steal the blinds until you wake up and do something about it! I would.

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Sorry OP for the thread hijack but I have been realizing that my fold BB to steal is something like 82%. This seems very high since my vpip is 15% that means that I am only defending an extra 2-3% I know that I should defend more but don't know what range is good.

Does anyone have any advice on what range would be good blind defense hands?

I also tend to get lost as to where I am at and call down loosing a lot when behind and only winning a little when ahead. Does anyone have some links to historic posts on this subject?

Thanks,
Greg

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

One villain did this more than once, and in the future I might try a re-raise to see if it is a steal attempt. If the raise comes from an EP player and 2 others call (3 others call, 4 call), is the pot big enough to call with my BB discount?

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

One common situation.

Hero is in the BB
Villian is the button and raises first in.
SB folds
Hero defends with K9 by calling
Board misses say Q84 rainbow.
Hero checks and calls or checkraises.
Turn misses hero again. Hero checks, villian bets, hero folds.

Usually if I catch any piece of the board I call down. However, K high or less sucks on the turn. There is not enough money in the pot to call profitibally.

this is probably why my 6max game sucks.

Greg

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

This is a fold for me every time. Your going have kicker issues if you flop a king and you really can't make much of a hand with anything else, no flush or straight possiblities. You are also going to be out of position for the remainder of the hand.

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

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One common situation.

Hero is in the BB
Villian is the button and raises first in.
SB folds
Hero defends with K9 by calling
Board misses say Q84 rainbow.
Hero checks and calls or checkraises.
Turn misses hero again. Hero checks, villian bets, hero folds.

Usually if I catch any piece of the board I call down. However, K high or less sucks on the turn. There is not enough money in the pot to call profitibally.

this is probably why my 6max game sucks.

Greg

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Maybe this is an interesting thread for you then "MLET Challenge: Sleeman action"

MLET challenge: Sleeman action

Feel free to join the discussion!

-Thrakkar

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

OP specified that he has K9 - K2 offsuit. Unless your villain is a maniac who raises very light, or is opening from late position (and thus likely to be stealing) you can fold all of these without giving it a second thought.

Against a steal you can sometimes call with K7o+ but you should often still fold.

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

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One villain did this more than once, and in the future I might try a re-raise to see if it is a steal attempt. If the raise comes from an EP player and 2 others call (3 others call, 4 call), is the pot big enough to call with my BB discount?

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NO! Fold trash hands! K9-K2 are trash, even if they're suited...especially do not play those hands with 4 other donks in the pot. If you have K9 and a King comes out on a rainbow flop, you're beat by KT, KJ, KQ, KK, and AK which are all possibilities when 3 or 4 other villians are in the pot. What are you hoping to gain by calling a raise that three other people have already called? Are you hoping to flop trips, a boat, or a King high flush if you're suited? Sure you might get a King high flush and win sometimes, but a lot of the time you'll be beat by an Ace high flush.

In my first response, I misread your post. I thought you said suited K9-K2, not offsuit (that's even worse). If the action folds to the button and you've seen him raise on a frequent basis, then go ahead and defend with K9o. But in the example you gave me, you're asking if you should call a preflop raise that 3 other people who have position on you already called. Just throw the hand away.

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

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I had about 10 hands last night playing .25-.50 when I was in the Big Blind and faced a preflop raise with K-x (offsuit card from 2-9). Is there any situation where I would call with this hand? How many bets/opponents would I need in the pot to make this worthwhile?

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yes, if you suspect a steal(that is, ask yourself from what position did the raise come from... CO or Button, and where there any other limpers?) If it looks like a steal, you ought to call...i believe i play/call with K6o and stronger or K4s in those situations; if more than one opponent i probably fold

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

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One common situation.

Hero is in the BB
Villian is the button and raises first in.
SB folds
Hero defends with K9 by raising...


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This changes everything, especially when the button will often fold if he misses.

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

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I had about 10 hands last night playing .25-.50 when I was in the Big Blind and faced a preflop raise with K-x (offsuit card from 2-9). Is there any situation where I would call with this hand? How many bets/opponents would I need in the pot to make this worthwhile?

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yes, if you suspect a steal(that is, ask yourself from what position did the raise come from... CO or Button, and where there any other limpers?) If it looks like a steal, you ought to call...i believe i play/call with K6o and stronger or K4s in those situations; if more than one opponent i probably fold

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I don't know why you would defend with K4s but not K2-3s.

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

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I had about 10 hands last night playing .25-.50 when I was in the Big Blind and faced a preflop raise with K-x (offsuit card from 2-9). Is there any situation where I would call with this hand? How many bets/opponents would I need in the pot to make this worthwhile?

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yes, if you suspect a steal(that is, ask yourself from what position did the raise come from... CO or Button, and where there any other limpers?) If it looks like a steal, you ought to call...i believe i play/call with K6o and stronger or K4s in those situations; if more than one opponent i probably fold

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I don't know why you would defend with K4s but not K2-3s.

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it was an arbitrary cut-off point i decided upon for myself...i believe in a heads up situation K4s was in the top 1/3 of the starting hands versus any two cards random cards...it had more to do with deciding how frequently i would defend the blinds versus a steal rather than how powerful the hand is as there is really little difference in K4s v K2s as you note...you may well come up with better decisions for yourself...

Re: Calling PF raises from the big blind
 

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One villain did this more than once, and in the future I might try a re-raise to see if it is a steal attempt. If the raise comes from an EP player and 2 others call (3 others call, 4 call), is the pot big enough to call with my BB discount?

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NO! Fold trash hands! K9-K2 are trash, even if they're suited...especially do not play those hands with 4 other donks in the pot. If you have K9 and a King comes out on a rainbow flop, you're beat by KT, KJ, KQ, KK, and AK which are all possibilities when 3 or 4 other villians are in the pot. What are you hoping to gain by calling a raise that three other people have already called? Are you hoping to flop trips, a boat, or a King high flush if you're suited? Sure you might get a King high flush and win sometimes, but a lot of the time you'll be beat by an Ace high flush.

In my first response, I misread your post. I thought you said suited K9-K2, not offsuit (that's even worse). If the action folds to the button and you've seen him raise on a frequent basis, then go ahead and defend with K9o. But in the example you gave me, you're asking if you should call a preflop raise that 3 other people who have position on you already called. Just throw the hand away.

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A king-high flush is generally a very strong hand(using both hole cards). I think you can call profitable with K9s with several other callers in. It depends on the situation.