set vs LAG
 

opponent is a LAG. not a maniac, but an idiot nonetheless. kind of guy that gives way too much action but can also be a pain in the ass because he value bets like everything and will c/r bluff on turns etc...

vilkian opens in CO, button calls, i 3bang out of SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] both call.

flop is K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

i lead, villian raises, button calls, I reraise, villian caps, button folds.

he doesnt have KK here. most likely KT or K7 as i think he caps 77 preflop, but he may not also. he could also have gutters of any variety.

turn is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

i check, he bets, i check raise, he 3-bets, I cap.

river is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

i bet, he raises......

turn cap, river action....?

been away from game for a while and am rusty.

Re: set vs LAG
 

I'd be really worried about him being on something like J9 after he caps the turn since you don't think he could have KK or 77.

Re: set vs LAG
 

KK, J9s 19 combos beats you.

KT, 77, 88, and some strange 2 pair you beat. 10 hands

I would call. Clear call.

Re: set vs LAG
 

3 betting here given your description is a spew, I expect to see J9 here almost always.

Re: set vs LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
3 betting here given your description is a spew, I expect to see J9 here almost always.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT,J,&TAW

Re: set vs LAG
 

Yep, call and hope to see two pair.

Re: set vs LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
KK, J9s 19 combos beats you.

KT, 77, 88, and some strange 2 pair you beat. 10 hands

I would call. Clear call.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO faling to discount J9s combos like Jd9d and Jh9h substantially would be a mistake, and giving full weight to J9o would also be a mistake, his flop cap with a double-gutter on that board would be suicidal. That said, once he puts in the river raise I think we are done very very often and I would just call.

Surf

Re: set vs LAG
 

i think he is capping a double gutter just about every time on this flop, given the description.

Re: set vs LAG
 

Yeah I disagree Surf, the player as described is fully capable of capping a double gutter there. The only way I'd discount J9 combos is if he might not raise J9o preflop.

Re: set vs LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I disagree Surf, the player as described is fully capable of capping a double gutter there. The only way I'd discount J9 combos is if he might not raise J9o preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

he might 6 bet d gutters if given the chance.

Re: set vs LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I disagree Surf, the player as described is fully capable of capping a double gutter there. The only way I'd discount J9 combos is if he might not raise J9o preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

he might 6 bet d gutters if given the chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just going by the description you gave - "opponent is a LAG. not a maniac, but an idiot nonetheless. kind of guy that gives way too much action but can also be a pain in the ass because he value bets like everything and will c/r bluff on turns etc..."

This conjured to mind a 40/20 type player who is tough to play against but is exploitable because he cont-bets too much and shows down too much, and my go too many bets with semi-strong+ made hands.

A guy who raise-caps J9o on this flop is a full-on maniac (or horrendous hand reader) neither of which were implied in the original description? If you think he'll raise-cap any J9 here on the flop then i think your turn cap is probably a little much, no?

Surf

Re: set vs LAG
 

Surf, if you are in villains shoes, what do you put hero on after he threebets the flop, and why would capping with the double bellybuster be so bad?
I think it, can add deception and thus increase implied odds, get you a turnfreecard, and with the third guy still half in, it cant be that bad equitywise?

Re: set vs LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I disagree Surf, the player as described is fully capable of capping a double gutter there. The only way I'd discount J9 combos is if he might not raise J9o preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

he might 6 bet d gutters if given the chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just going by the description you gave - "opponent is a LAG. not a maniac, but an idiot nonetheless. kind of guy that gives way too much action but can also be a pain in the ass because he value bets like everything and will c/r bluff on turns etc..."

This conjured to mind a 40/20 type player who is tough to play against but is exploitable because he cont-bets too much and shows down too much, and my go too many bets with semi-strong+ made hands.

A guy who raise-caps J9o on this flop is a full-on maniac (or horrendous hand reader) neither of which were implied in the original description? If you think he'll raise-cap any J9 here on the flop then i think your turn cap is probably a little much, no?

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is so many of these aggressive players fall in love with whatever draw they're on and either try as hard as they can for a free card or think they're getting value out of their cap. Perhaps you could liken it to the people who 3-bet bad flops with their UI overs? I've seen countless 2+2ers make that play, and this guy doesn't even sound close to that level.

I do agree that the turn cap may prove to be excessive if we give him a hand range for things that he 3-bets the turn with.

Re: set vs LAG
 

[ QUOTE ]
Surf, if you are in villains shoes, what do you put hero on after he threebets the flop, and why would capping with the double bellybuster be so bad?
I think it, can add deception and thus increase implied odds, get you a turnfreecard, and with the third guy still half in, it cant be that bad equitywise?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I were in villains shoes, I'd put sublime on something like(in order of strength):

AcJc
AcQc
KJs
KQ
AK
AA
KTs(discounted)
77
TT
KK

and just mayyyybe something like QQ/JJ that got a little frisky. Capping vs that range is suicide, both equity-wise and implieds wise - the only hands that he's going to get extra action from on the big streets (should) be 77, TT, KK, which are going to give him extra action pretty much regardless of what he does on the flop.
He's not earning himself any FE since he's pretty much never winning this without a showdown, given the 3rd player dragging along and the action sublime has shown. It may be a good play to take a free turn card, but this type of player usually then bets the turn anyway.

Surf