Say goodbye to the dream
 

If you asked me this summer, there wasn't much chance that I wouldn't be playing professional poker for at least a little while after graduation. Well, this year I decided to put some energy into applying for jobs, and it turned out to go way better than expected... You dont need to know anything about finance to get a trading job, and they really look fondly on good poker skills, and some firms don't get too caught up with grades.

I had a good long thought about my options and in the end it comes down to the fact that I am likely at my most "marketable" to the trading world now. If I took time off for poker, I'd have a lot less leverage and would not be as young or seem as motivated/engaged in the eyes of some firms on wall street. I'd also look very desperate perhaps (IE, oh look he failed playing poker NOW he wants a finance job, he probably is just in it because his first option didnt work out, how motivated can he be?) In addition, with online poker very much looking like a crappy option, poker is a lot more unappealing as a career. Plus, I want to be involved in social circles that extend beyond poker social circles. All these factors led me to aggressively apply for jobs this recruiting season... Plus I am genuinely convinced this would be a great field for me to be in next year.

So with my sub-3 gpa, but beautiful looks and schmoozing abilities, I have an offer from Morgan Stanley trading single stock equity derivatives, and an offer from JP Morgan on their Commodities desk. I also am in late round interviews with a third firm (Goldman Sachs). There is no doubt I will end up at one of these companies this July.

I guess this post is a little depressing in a way, but I feel like I am probably making the best long-term decision for me, at the expense of living the life right out of college.

Any thoughts about these decisions, or the 2 firms I got offers from (I am undecided at the moment), or HU bankroll challenges would be appreciated. Right now I'm feeling pretty good about a life in New York working for a pretty good firm. The hours are something like 6:30am to between 5-8pm at night, so serious hours. Pay is probably exactly what you'd expect for a first year job on wall street, I'm not going to post numbers but your first guess is probably correct.

-Jason

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pay is probably exactly what you'd expect for a first year job on wall street, I'm not going to post numbers but your first guess is probably correct.


[/ QUOTE ]

can someone else guess this for me?

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

get a blog or something.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

Pay is exteremly standard for these jobs across the board (IE all trading firms tend to offer similar packages).

Its like 60k base, 10k signing bonus, and performance bonus which can be between 0 and something like 50-100k I guess? Most probably make slightly less than 100k in their first year.

edit: reason i decided to post numbers is because they are incredibly standard and i dont think it will piss off anyone

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

my blog sucks

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

congrats jason, once u get all set up making 70k a year, lemme know and u can invest my rakeback monies [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] seriously though, i think yer making a good decision. all the best. holla

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

well now 15-20 years down the line u can stroll into vegas and play the big game and pretend u are a big whale.....AND THEN CRUSH THEM bwahaha

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

Is "failing" at poker really even in the realm of possibility for you? Whatever you decide, gl.

P.S. I thought you were studying some sort of microbiology or something.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

good luck, i think you'll enjoy it if you can see past the early mornings and days you don't want to be there -- it's just a different mindset than poker even if you'll be using a lot of the same skills

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

i assume you wont stop playing, and if im correct in my assumption, i wish you the best of luck as a recreational/part time player and hope you'll stay on the boards

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

major?

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

biomedical and electrical engineering... but i dont really like it and they like engineering degrees for trading.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

I always thought Wall Street guys leave their job so they can become as good as you in poker and not have to wake up at 6:30 am. I think you got this whole thing backwards.

GL in anything you chose though.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

I'm still find it interesting that in a recent post you stated you "wanted to do something stimulating with your life" and picked this job, but I suppose thats all a matter of taste/perspective.

Congrats though, with the timing of this legislation thing and the points you presented about your markebility now, I think its a good choice, stability is a great thing and NYC is a fun town. Best of luck.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

I do see trading as a pretty interesting career choice for me. In terms of being intellectually stimulating, how can an argument be made that poker is more intellectually stimulating than trading? The competition is harder and trading and the decisions are more complex.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

You don't sound like a moron who burned thru his cash while playing poker so this seems perfect. If you hate it, you can quit and play poker or live off your roll. If you love it, then you made the best decision of your life. Please tell me that your buying a place and not renting.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

Strassa,

This post is making me very bitter, because if someone who has been far times more succesful playing poker then me is giving it up it makes me wonder if it's worth it for me to grind the 2/4NL tables. I'm sure I will for a bit but this makes me feel like I need to do a lot more school work and stop playing poker. Anyways GL hopefully you still play recreationaly, stay with the forum and make some decent cash on the side. Random sidenote I feel like some point in when your trading and tired of it/not enjoying you'll think what if my AA held up in the main event and I kept pwning how would my life be different. Maybe that's just what I'd do in your shoes because I find it fun to try and imagine what would happen if some event changed. Anyways best of luck.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do see trading as a pretty interesting career choice for me. In terms of being intellectually stimulating, how can an argument be made that poker is more intellectually stimulating than trading? The competition is harder and trading and the decisions are more complex.

[/ QUOTE ]

and u can make lots more long term. holla

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

I am fairly certain that you still want to wait a little while before buying a place in nyc. Its a killer city. I've lived there the last three years and will most likely end up living there later in life when I'm rich biotch. Good luck.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

7figures per year > 60-100k per year

lol

but I guess its whatever makes you sleep better at night

my expenses >100k per year
so I dont have a choice, I got to hustle

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

I think this is a great decision. You've seemingly made enough money which, wisely invested, will see you be able to lead a very good life for quite a while, and providing you are successfuly at this job, you should be set for life. I dont see why you couldnt be retired at 40 if you want to.

If you dont enjoy or succedd in the city, a player of your talent could easily return to poker, whereas the other way round is MUCH more difficult.

Playing online poker is pretty boring, and as a life style is pretty terrible for most. Having 'poker' friends has its ups, and lots of 2p2ers are great, smart, talented people and good company - but its great to branch out, and you should meet other great people in the professional capacity. Being able to socialise with people day in day out, just in the work environment is good for mental health, whereas staying indoors, in front of a monitor is pretty depressing and unhealthy, even when making tonnes of money.

I think you'll really enjoy being around smart people, day in day out, people with knowledge they can pass on to, people to banter with, people to go for a pint with after day's end. Hopefully you'll still find time to get at least 5 hours a week poker in, if you choose. I suspect you'll enjoy poker a lot more this way too.

Good luck!

Dean

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a great decision. You've seemingly made enough money which, wisely invested, will see you be able to lead a very good life for quite a while, and providing you are successfuly at this job, you should be set for life. I dont see why you couldnt be retired at 40 if you want to.

If you dont enjoy or succedd in the city, a player of your talent could easily return to poker, whereas the other way round is MUCH more difficult.

Playing online poker is pretty boring, and as a life style is pretty terrible for most. Having 'poker' friends has its ups, and lots of 2p2ers are great, smart, talented people and good company - but its great to branch out, and you should meet other great people in the professional capacity. Being able to socialise with people day in day out, just in the work environment is good for mental health, whereas staying indoors, in front of a monitor is pretty depressing and unhealthy, even when making tonnes of money.

I think you'll really enjoy being around smart people, day in day out, people with knowledge they can pass on to, people to banter with, people to go for a pint with after day's end. Hopefully you'll still find time to get at least 5 hours a week poker in, if you choose. I suspect you'll enjoy poker a lot more this way too.

Good luck!

Dean

[/ QUOTE ]

Dean, have you ever read a book about working on wall street?

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

Good luck Jason,

You seem to understand what you are sacrificing and what you are gaining. I personally would have waited a couple years (and am) but I think that the decision to start along a more "normal" carrer path while very young can be the best choice especially since you have offers from such top firms.

I would say to remember to not forget about your own well-being and make sure to not get too caught up in work work work since that is how you will be pushed.

Mostly I would just like to say good luck and even though it is a little time away until you would be starting the job Id love to hear about it how it goes since I am interested in a similar field of work after all this.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

Strassa,

I always got the impression that trading is a long term -EV method to invest in stock that vast majority of people lose money becaues they can't eat the fees in the long run. I remember an anology that talks about if 1000 people flip coin blah blah few people will flip head 8 times in a row or whatever.

Is this a misconception? is it just like poker where minority % of people that have discipline/ and study the game are able to expect +EV in long run?

p.s) i hope you run g00d lol.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

Congrats again. I will hopefully follow in your footsteps if I can somehow make it to classes and show up for exams for another yr.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

g2cu,

no, but I have worked in the City in London, for Deutsche Bank, so I think I have some idea. I'm sure Jason will be working very hard for the next few years, but that isnt necessarily a bad thing.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

DB,

"7figures per year > 60-100k per year"

How much you want to put down on Strassa having more money than you in 10 years?

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

Diablo,

I think the 7 figs comment was referring to Jason's potential earnings from poker, not Bill's.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

[ QUOTE ]
DB,

"7figures per year > 60-100k per year"

How much you want to put down on Strassa having more money than you in 3 years?

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp. i have so many friends in their 2-3 years of trading who are making somewhere close to 7 figures already, and they don't have close to the poker background jason has, which helps a ton.

all you fools thinking you can make more at poker need to open your eyes... for reals.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DB,

"7figures per year > 60-100k per year"

How much you want to put down on Strassa having more money than you in 3 years?

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp. i have so many friends in their 2-3 years of trading who are making somewhere close to 7 figures already, and they don't have close to the poker background jason has, which helps a ton.

all you fools thinking you can make more at poker need to open your eyes... for reals.

[/ QUOTE ]

7 Figures!? Do companies pay them this or do they make it trading on their own w/ their own money?

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DB,

"7figures per year > 60-100k per year"

How much you want to put down on Strassa having more money than you in 3 years?

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp. i have so many friends in their 2-3 years of trading who are making somewhere close to 7 figures already, and they don't have close to the poker background jason has, which helps a ton.

all you fools thinking you can make more at poker need to open your eyes... for reals.

[/ QUOTE ]

7 Figures!? Do companies pay them this or do they make it trading on their own w/ their own money?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok the two i know who are in their 2 years and on track to be making 7 figures within 4... they both work for companies so are fully staked, one has a special deal with a small trading firm in chicago and gets something sick like 50% of his trades (which he does mostly with high net worth private clients) on top of some 200-300k ish salary i'm unsure of, and the other gets 7-10% of his book, but he trades with companies rather than people so his book is much larger. they both actually lurk 2p2 so maybe they want to chime in, but probably won't see this. anyway it's real and it isn't easy, but if oyu're good and smart, which i assume jason will be and is (same with many of us), it's definitely doable.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

Vanessa,

Find me a job!!!!!

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

[ QUOTE ]
DB,

"7figures per year > 60-100k per year"

How much you want to put down on Strassa having more money than you in 10 years?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol...pull out a # and ill double it if he takes this job

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DB,

"7figures per year > 60-100k per year"

How much you want to put down on Strassa having more money than you in 10 years?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol...pull out a # and ill double it if he takes this job

[/ QUOTE ]

i smell a pretty sick prop bet

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

who says I only play poker for a income?

I just think its silly for el diablo to call me out like that since he barely knows me.

Speically since I think he misintrepeted me in the first place. In my orignial post I was implying that jason making 7 figures a year in poker is better than making 60-100k per year trading imo. Im guessing thats what he could make in poker per year. Obv. I underestimated trading a little, I pretty much just took his estimates for it.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

[ QUOTE ]
DB,

"7figures per year > 60-100k per year"

How much you want to put down on Strassa having more money than you in 10 years?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd bet on Don having a much more enjoyable time for the next ten years while still being very secure financially, although "enjoyable" is obviously relative. Not saying its the "smarter" route, but ten years is a long time and we only live so long. Getting stuck grinding a job you hate can be hell. Obviously being irresponsible and not having a whole lot of anything 10 years (or much farther down the road) from now can be much worse of an outcome, but I don't see that happening to either of them. I hope you enjoy your job Jason, and best of luck to you. If you realize that its not what you want to be doing, and you still want a career away from poker, I'm sure you know that there are many other options available to you.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

There are certainly more interesting things to do with your life than to play poker. I'm not sure that trading financial securities is one of them.

Re: Say goodbye to the dream
 

Jason,

Glad to hear about your decision, sounds great.

I'm a freshman at usc, and would love to work as a trader after college. Any insight on what kind of classes to take, what major to declare, places to look for internships, etc?

Anyone, feel free to chime in.

-Mr.Muni