why I\'m an atheist...
 

Stephen Roberts:
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Seneca the Younger 4 b.c.- 65 a.d.:
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

Blaise Pascal:
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions.

Emo Philips:
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

Bertrand Russell:
And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.

George Bernard Shaw:
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.

Doug McLeod:
I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence.

Unknown:
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.

Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Carl Sagan:
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe.

Steven Weinberg:
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Unknown:
Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence.

and for those of you who still think the United States of America was founded as a "Christian nation"

Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.

more

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

Gold


One more.

[ QUOTE ]
Religion is unusual among divisible labels in being spectacularly unnecessary. If religious beliefs had any evidence going for them, we might had to respect them in spite of their concomitant unpleasantness. But there is no such evidence. To label people as death-deserving enemies because of disagreements about real world politics is bad enough. To do the same for disagreements about a delusional world inhabited by archangels, demons and imaginary friends is ludicrously tragic.

written by Richard Dawkins

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stephen Roberts:
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Seneca the Younger 4 b.c.- 65 a.d.:
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

Blaise Pascal:
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions.

Emo Philips:
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

Bertrand Russell:
And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.

George Bernard Shaw:
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.

Doug McLeod:
I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence.

Unknown:
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.

Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Carl Sagan:
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe.

Steven Weinberg:
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Unknown:
Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence.

and for those of you who still think the United States of America was founded as a "Christian nation"

Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.

more

[/ QUOTE ]

I really like the quote in bold and i have one to offer tell me what you think....

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for evil people to do good things, that takes religion."

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

The two people I admire most in this world are Tommy Douglas and Carl Sagan (edit: yes I know they're both dead).

Naturally, I love that quote of Sagan's. I like this one too:

"For thousands of years humans were oppressed - as some of us still are - by the notion that the universe is a marionette whose strings are pulled by a god or gods, unseen and inscrutable."

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

So are you an atheist because you don't believe in God or religion? Because several of the people you quoted either believe in a Supreme Being or don't discount the possibility of one, regardless of their detest of organized religion.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

My favorites:

"I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers" - William H. Gascoyne

"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." - Nietszche

"Yesterday's cult = today's religion = tomorrow's myth" - me

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
So are you an atheist because you don't believe in God or religion? Because several of the people you quoted either believe in a Supreme Being or don't discount the possibility of one, regardless of their detest of organized religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly religion. I'm not arrogant enough to claim I know for a fact that there is no God. No proof of one does not necessarily mean there isn't one. So I guess I'm really more agnostic...I'm open to anything...just show me proof!

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So are you an atheist because you don't believe in God or religion? Because several of the people you quoted either believe in a Supreme Being or don't discount the possibility of one, regardless of their detest of organized religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly religion. I'm not arrogant enough to claim I know for a fact that there is no God. No proof of one does not necessarily mean there isn't one. So I guess I'm really more agnostic...I'm open to anything...just show me proof!

[/ QUOTE ]

I kind of lean towards some kind of creative impulse kicking the whole thing off. It could be some form of a divine being or simply a quantum leap, but I treat it more of a hypothesis than fact.
I do however share in most atheists view on religion. But the one element of religion I've adopted is faith. I have a complete and absolute faith in Truth. Eventually it will win out.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

Some more:

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart." -H. L. Mencken


"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." -Ambrose Bierce


"Pray: To ask the laws of the universe to be annulled on behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy." -Ambrose Bierce


"Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day. Teach him a religion and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish." -Unknown

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Pray: To ask the laws of the universe to be annulled on behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy." -Ambrose Bierce

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama, 1988:
We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.


I honestly don't think it's fair to call Buddhism a religion.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't think it's fair to call Buddhism a religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Though many buddhists classify buddhism as a non-theist religion.

I think it's simply called a religion because it's such a popular philosophy. None other is has so many followers besides organized religions.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't think it's fair to call Buddhism a religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are many sects of Buddhism. Some of them are clearly religious. Others are much more spiritual/philosophical.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

Thanks for those...

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't think it's fair to call Buddhism a religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are many sects of Buddhism. Some of them are clearly religious. Others are much more spiritual/philosophical.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true. I was most familiar with the Mulamadhyamika philosophy, which was kind of the Austrian school of spirituality [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gold


One more.

[ QUOTE ]
Religion is unusual among divisible labels in being spectacularly unnecessary. If religious beliefs had any evidence going for them, we might had to respect them in spite of their concomitant unpleasantness. But there is no such evidence. To label people as death-deserving enemies because of disagreements about real world politics is bad enough. To do the same for disagreements about a delusional world inhabited by archangels, demons and imaginary friends is ludicrously tragic.

written by Richard Dawkins

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you read Dawkin's book, "The God Delusion?" I just ordered it from Amazon. I figured I had to do it now before Amazon decided they shouldn't sell such blasphemous works. ;p

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
and for those of you who still think the United States of America was founded as a "Christian nation"


[/ QUOTE ]

The Mayflower Compact

1620

"In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&.

Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.

In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620."

First Inaugural Address of
President George Washington

April 30, 1789

Fellow-Citizens of the Senate and of the House of Representatives:

Among the vicissitudes incident to life no event could have filled me with greater anxieties than that of which the notification was transmitted by your order, and received on the 14th day of the present month. On the one hand, I was summoned by my country, whose voice I can never hear but with veneration and love, from a retreat which I had chosen with the fondest predilection, and, in my flattering hopes, with an immutable decision, as the asylum of my declining years -- a retreat which was rendered every day more necessary as well as more dear to me by the addition of habit to inclination, and of frequent interruptions in my health to the gradual waste committed on it by time. On the other hand, the magnitude and difficulty of the trust to which the voice of my country called me, being sufficient to awaken in the wisest and most experienced of her citizens a distrustful scrutiny into his qualifications, could not but overwhelm with despondence one who (inheriting inferior endowments from nature and unpracticed in the duties of civil administration) ought to be peculiarly conscious of his own deficiencies. In this conflict of emotions all I dare avert is that it has been my faithful study to collect my duty from a just appreciation of every circumstance by which it might be affected. All I dare hope is that if, in executing this task, I have been too much swayed by a grateful remembrance of former instances, or by an affectionate sensibility to this transcendent proof of the confidence of my fellow-citizens, and have thence too little consulted my incapacity as well as disinclination for the weighty and untried cares before me, my error will be palliated by the motives which mislead me, and its consequences be judged by my country with some share of the partiality in which they originated.

Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes, and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure my self that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own, nor those of my fellow-citizens at large less than either. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency; and in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their united government the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities from which the event has resulted can not be compared with the means by which most governments have been established without some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me, I trust, in thinking that there are none under the influence of which the proceedings of a new and free government can more auspiciously commence.

By the article establishing the executive department it is made the duty of the President "to recommend to your consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient." The circumstances under which I now meet you will acquit me from entering into that subject further than to refer to the great constitutional charter under which you are assembled, and which, in defining your powers, designates the objects to which your attention is to be given. It will be more consistent with those circumstances, and far more congenial with the feelings which actuate me, to substitute, in place of a recommendation of particular measures, the tribute that is due to the talents, the rectitude, and the patriotism which adorn the characters selected to devise and adopt them. In these honorable qualifications I behold the surest pledges that as on one side no local prejudices or attachments, no separate views nor party animosities, will misdirect the comprehensive and equal eye which ought to watch over this great assemblage of communities and interests, so, on another, that the foundation of our national policy will be laid in the pure and immutable principles of private morality, and the preeminence of free government be exemplified by all the attributes which can win the affections of its citizens and command the respect of the world. I dwell on this prospect with every satisfaction which an ardent love for my country can inspire, since there is no truth more thoroughly established than that there exists in the economy and course of nature an indissoluble union between virtue and happiness; between duty and advantage; between the genuine maxims of an honest and magnanimous policy and the solid rewards of public prosperity and felicity; since we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained; and since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered, perhaps, as deeply, as finally, staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people.

Besides the ordinary objects submitted to your care, it will remain with your judgment to decide how far an exercise of the occasional power delegated by the fifth article of the Constitution is rendered expedient at the present juncture by the nature of objections which have been urged against the system, or by the degree of inquietude which has given birth to them. Instead of undertaking particular recommendations on this subject, in which I could be guided by no lights derived from official opportunities, I shall again give way to my entire confidence in your discernment and pursuit of the public good; for I assure myself that whilst you carefully avoid every alteration which might endanger the benefits of an united and effective government, or which ought to await the future lessons of experience, a reverence for the characteristic rights of freemen and a regard for the public harmony will sufficiently influence your deliberations on the question how far the former can be impregnably fortified or the latter be safely and advantageously promoted.

To the foregoing observations I have one to add, which will be most properly addressed to the House of Representatives. It concerns myself, and will therefore be as brief as possible. When I was first honored with a call into the service of my country, then on the eve of an arduous struggle for its liberties, the light in which I contemplated my duty required that I should renounce every pecuniary compensation. From this resolution I have in no instance departed; and being still under the impressions which produced it, I must decline as inapplicable to myself any share in the personal emoluments which may be indispensably included in a permanent provision for the executive department, and must accordingly pray that the pecuniary estimates for the station in which I am placed may during my continuance in it be limited to such actual expenditures as the public good may be thought to require.

Having thus imparted to you my sentiments as they have been awakened by the occasion which brings us together, I shall take my present leave; but not without resorting once more to the benign Parent of the Human Race in humble supplication that, since He has been pleased to favor the American people with opportunities for deliberating in perfect tranquility, and dispositions for deciding with unparalleled unanimity on a form of government for the security of their union and the advancement of their happiness, so His divine blessing may be equally conspicuous in the enlarged views, the temperate consultations, and the wise measures on which the success of this Government must depend.
________________________________________
From the Historic Documents archive published online by The Patriot Post at http://PatriotPost.US

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

Are you arguing against a God as defined by the religons of the world or are you arguing that an "intelligent designer" does not exist.

My take:
God defined by religons = 0% chance of being correct
ID or some force out there = Unlikely but too soon to tell. There are just way to many unknowns. Our true understanding of the basic foundations of the universe is zero.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

Funny that you quote Pascal, a talented scientist and mathematician who became a Christian.

Here's a little pensée of my own:

The uneducated are faithful, the half-learned are atheists, and the truly wise are faithful.

That's kind of a Pascal rip-off. For you, the half-learned, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Funny that you quote Pascal, a talented scientist and mathematician who became a Christian.

Here's a little pensée of my own:

The uneducated are faithful, the half-learned are atheists, and the truly wise are faithful.

That's kind of a Pascal rip-off. For you, the half-learned, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

"Drink the Kool-Aid" -- Jim Jones

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

Why I'm agnostic... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

What do women scream during coitus?

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

Why would God care about man?

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why I'm agnostic... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

What do women scream during coitus?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why I'm agnostic... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

What do women scream during coitus?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean: "Are you finished yet?" I don't see what that has to do with agnosticism. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why I'm agnostic... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

What do women scream during coitus?

[/ QUOTE ]
Some people take these things way too seriously.

"Dear Sweet Reason,

This may seem a little ridiculous or out of your usual tenor, but my boyfriend is bothered by me saying, “Oh god!” while we are having sex. He is an ardent atheist, while I consider myself to be more of an agnostic. I’ve tried explaining that this is really a moot point, but he seems really bothered by it. I keep hoping he will forget about it, but he just keeps bringing it up. Honestly, it’s the last thing on my mind..."

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why I'm agnostic... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

What do women scream during coitus?

[/ QUOTE ]

"HOPEY!!!"

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

Of all the quotations you cited, only the first has any value aside from rhetoric. And even the first is surely used primarily as rhetoric, as you have used it in this case.

Now, there's nothing wrong with rhetoric, it's surely used by both sides, but understand it for what it is.

I doubt you truly believe the following statement, for example:
I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Emo Philips:
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL that's my favorite one. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of all the quotations you cited, only the first has any value aside from rhetoric. And even the first is surely used primarily as rhetoric, as you have used it in this case.

Now, there's nothing wrong with rhetoric, it's surely used by both sides, but understand it for what it is.

I doubt you truly believe the following statement, for example:
I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's amusing.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

You're an atheist because it makes you feel witty?

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

"Are you arguing against a God as defined by the religons of the world or are you arguing that an "intelligent designer" does not exist.

My take:
God defined by religons = 0% chance of being correct
ID or some force out there = Unlikely but too soon to tell. There are just way to many unknowns. Our true understanding of the basic foundations of the universe is zero."

Back up to fourth.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

I was expecting a typical boring sex story on opening this thread. The quotes were refreshing. I disagree with many of them though.

[ QUOTE ]
Blaise Pascal:
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with this. Some of the most brutal and barbaric races and dictatorships had atheist philosophies.

[ QUOTE ]
Bertrand Russell:
And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's so much about vanity but having an open heart.

[ QUOTE ]
Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a bit simplistic. It's possible to create a system which, given its freedom, will create undesirable outcomes. One example is capitalism. Another example is parenting. Parents could prevent their kids from ever stealing from, killing or raping anyone by giving them a lobotomy when they're young. The fact that they don't doesn't mean that they're malevolent. In fact, any degree of freedom which an omnipotent being passes on has the potential to result in evil. Epicurus is way off base here.

[ QUOTE ]
Carl Sagan:
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is not entirely true either. Belief can come from a lack of intelligence, a lack of interest, or a misinterpretation of the evidence. Among smarter people, it's mostly the latter. Given the rigour required for clear thought and the huge number of fallacies the mind is vulnerable to, I think it's reasonable that many believers actually think their position is sound.

[ QUOTE ]
Steven Weinberg:
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it takes indoctrination and tribalism. Or are you claiming that most Germans/Japanese/Americans soldiers (i.e. Vietnam) are not good people?

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a bit simplistic. It's possible to create a system which, given its freedom, will create undesirable outcomes. One example is capitalism. Another example is parenting. Parents could prevent their kids from ever stealing from, killing or raping anyone by giving them a lobotomy when they're young. The fact that they don't doesn't mean that they're malevolent. In fact, any degree of freedom which an omnipotent being passes on has the potential to result in evil. Epicurus is way off base here.


[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I think this analogy fails is because parents aren't omnipotent.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of all the quotations you cited, only the first has any value aside from rhetoric. And even the first is surely used primarily as rhetoric, as you have used it in this case.

[/ QUOTE ]

The rhetoric can stimulate thought, but yeah. Style over substance is what motivates people. Most of these figures have written profound essays about the subject (and not always from an atheist perspective), but most people just roll their eyes at profound essays.

Anyhow, we're atheists. We get to indulge [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're an atheist because it makes you feel witty?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he's an atheist because it makes you bristle.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
No, he's an atheist because it makes you bristle.

[/ QUOTE ]

I only bristle at certain types of atheists.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

The others you tar?

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Back up to fourth.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're more capricious than Yahweh.

Re: why I\'m an atheist...
 

[ QUOTE ]
The others you tar?

[/ QUOTE ]

Too busy poisoning wells and eating children (i.e. "my Christian duty"). Haven't you read the Bible?