Neteller and the IRS
 

like many of the players here I use Neteller and am worried about the money i have there. I want to pull it out but i've already made a 9500$ withdrawl a week ago and dont wanna past the 10k limit that requires my bank to notify the IRS. Is getting a e-check and waitin a month to cash it my best option? Or should i just EFT that sucker now?

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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like many of the players here I use Neteller and am worried about the money i have there. I want to pull it out but i've already made a 9500$ withdrawl a week ago and dont wanna past the 10k limit that requires my bank to notify the IRS. Is getting a e-check and waitin a month to cash it my best option? Or should i just EFT that sucker now?

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LOL @ avoiding the reporting threshold while being seemingly unaware of a "SAR"

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

#1 Pay Taxes and sleep good

#2 I thought they only notified the IRS on CASH deposits of over 10K.

Indy

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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I thought they only notified the IRS on CASH deposits of over 10K.

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It would be worthwhile to look up "structuring".

___1___

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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like many of the players here I use Neteller and am worried about the money i have there. I want to pull it out but i've already made a 9500$ withdrawl a week ago and dont wanna past the 10k limit that requires my bank to notify the IRS. Is getting a e-check and waitin a month to cash it my best option? Or should i just EFT that sucker now?

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Note to self. When trying to cheat the IRS don't write about it on a public forum. Second, They know more than I do. Third, they have more resouces than I. Fourth, someone probably tried this tactic and the IRS could not possible think of a way to find out????

My suggestion, hire an accountant and pay the taxes.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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like many of the players here I use Neteller and am worried about the money i have there. I want to pull it out but i've already made a 9500$ withdrawl a week ago and dont wanna past the 10k limit that requires my bank to notify the IRS. Is getting a e-check and waitin a month to cash it my best option? Or should i just EFT that sucker now?

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Note to self. When trying to cheat the IRS don't write about it on a public forum. Second, They know more than I do. Third, they have more resouces than I. Fourth, someone probably tried this tactic and the IRS could not possible think of a way to find out????

My suggestion, hire an accountant and pay the taxes.

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Do you guys pay taxes on what you win, or what you cash out?

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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like many of the players here I use Neteller and am worried about the money i have there. I want to pull it out but i've already made a 9500$ withdrawl a week ago and dont wanna past the 10k limit that requires my bank to notify the IRS. Is getting a e-check and waitin a month to cash it my best option? Or should i just EFT that sucker now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Note to self. When trying to cheat the IRS don't write about it on a public forum. Second, They know more than I do. Third, they have more resouces than I. Fourth, someone probably tried this tactic and the IRS could not possible think of a way to find out????

My suggestion, hire an accountant and pay the taxes.

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Do you guys pay taxes on what you win, or what you cash out?

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It would be wise to hire a professional in your state rather than taking advice from unknown sources.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

Doesn't the bank report to the IRS if you've make 10K worth of non payroll deposits throughout the entire year? Why would it matter if you cahsed it out now or waited for a check and cashed it a month from now?

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Do you guys pay taxes on what you win, or what you cash out?

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What you win. Run a search for tax threads from March-Aprilish. There were some good ones back then.

Get with it. Pay taxes. If you're making a significant amount of money from poker (even though you should technically pay taxes even if you only win $5 all year), you need to report and pay taxes. People do go to prison for this and [censored] their lives up.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Doesn't the bank report to the IRS if you've make 10K worth of non payroll deposits throughout the entire year? Why would it matter if you cahsed it out now or waited for a check and cashed it a month from now?

[/ QUOTE ] No to the first question AFAIK. As ti the second question, the IRS reviews all 10K or greater non-payroll transactions into and out of bank accounts

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

Your bank has most likely already filed a Suspicious Activity Report on you, since you did a transaction that was obviously designed to circumvent the Money Laundering Act of 1986. Wire transactions and such items as traveler's checkes, not usually thought of as cash, have been covered under that law for a long time, not just cash per se. In some situations, wire transactions are reported to Department of Treasury even for amounts as small as $750. Structuring is a felony. What's done is done, but the best way to prove you are not structuring is to take care to have some transactions that are clearly above the reportable limit. It's better to have some CTRs than a bunch of SARs. Federal tax law clearly states that you must pay taxes on the amount of your win. If you need more nuanced advice because you weren't able to actually collect some of your win, hire an accountant. Clearly, the advice I can give you in a short post is not comprehensive and as a kicker comes from experience in the 1990s. It might be best to consult with an attorney and/or accountant who has experience in this century rather than gathering information on an anonymous website.

There has been a requirement to keep a trail of everything that has come and gone from your bank accounts since the 1970's Bank "Privacy" Act, when banks were required to make copies of all checks for $100 or more. Finding it impractical to separate just those checks, banks simply make copies of everything. Save a lot of time and grief, and play by the rules or don't play. As a fun "fact," I once read that all of the CTRs collected in the Nixon era, were actually on paper and stored in a single warehouse, where they promptly rotted. So never say mold never did us nothing. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

1) Pay your taxes

2) Get an accountant. It's like any other income producing profession. You pay taxes on your yearly profits from that year minus write-offs. It involves a lot more than just paying taxes on winnings or profits. There are write-offs for buy-ins to live tourney and online tourneys, possible write-offs for travel, hotel expenses, and food if it is deirectly related to the gambling you are doing. You are supposed to keep a log of every session you play for tax purposes, just like writing off travel/car mileage for a traveling sales job. You just don't write off 30K in mileage for the hell of it, you do it from your log. Again, get an accountant.

3) The 10K line for the IRS getting notified by your bank account is kind of a myth. Yes, all cash depsoits over 10K do notify the IRS. However, they get thousands a day, so they can't look into everyone. The banks are supposed to notify the IRS for any ABNORMAL deposits into ones account, regardless of if they are over 10K. If you have an average payroll deposit of $1500 per month and you have never had a balance over 3K and a deposit of 3K, a $9500 all of a sudden deposit is going to be sent to the IRS. It is supposed to be relevent to your income bracket and if the amount or the frequencies of the deposits are out of the ordinary. On the other hand, if you make $200K per year and regulary have large deposits and high balance, I don't think the IRS is going to blink at a 15K deposit into your account.

Hope that helps.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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You pay taxes on your yearly profits from that year minus write-offs.

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Only if you file as a professional gambler. The rules for "gambling income and losses" are very different for professionals and non-professionals (and can be very harsh on non-professionals).

His main point was definitely correct though: hire an accountant!

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

Is Neteller required to submit account information to the U.S. gov?

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

Is there any specific reason nobody linked their Neteller with an offshores account?

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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like many of the players here I use Neteller and am worried about the money i have there. I want to pull it out but i've already made a 9500$ withdrawl a week ago and dont wanna past the 10k limit that requires my bank to notify the IRS. Is getting a e-check and waitin a month to cash it my best option? Or should i just EFT that sucker now?

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I believe the 10K is for cash transactions. You are doing an echeck which would not notify the IRS. Now when the IRS audits your tax records, they can subpoena your bank records and see the paper trail.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Do you guys pay taxes on what you win, or what you cash out?

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People do go to prison for this and [censored] their lives up.

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I think it's very difficult to take people seriously when they make up [censored] like this. It's okay to advise people that they should be paying their taxes (duh), but the chance of facing jail time because you made a few thousand dollars playing poker but did not report it is essentially nil.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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like many of the players here I use Neteller and am worried about the money i have there. I want to pull it out but i've already made a 9500$ withdrawl a week ago and dont wanna past the 10k limit that requires my bank to notify the IRS. Is getting a e-check and waitin a month to cash it my best option? Or should i just EFT that sucker now?

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Rule #1 of adulthood: Don't #### with the IRS.

I am withdrawing a good part of my funds now (way overrolled anyway). I am ont concerned about it since as much as I hated writing the check I did pay my taxes.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Do you guys pay taxes on what you win, or what you cash out?

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People do go to prison for this and [censored] their lives up.

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I think it's very difficult to take people seriously when they make up [censored] like this. It's okay to advise people that they should be paying their taxes (duh), but the chance of facing jail time because you made a few thousand dollars playing poker but did not report it is essentially nil.

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I am a CPA, I've been doing this for 10 years, I regularly advise people on 2+2 and I know what I'm talking about. I'm not making [censored] up.

"fudging" your taxes for a few grand will probably not land you in the can, sure.

However, it sounds like the OP is talking about felony tax evasion. That is willfully and consciously hiding income from the government for the purpose of not paying taxes on it. The OP is talking about tens of thousands of dollars. That isn't peanuts and the IRS might just prosecute someone for that.

I said "People do go to prison for this and [censored] their lives up". Which is true. I didn't say the OP would go to prison necessarily, but people do go to prison for tax evasion. Don't believe me? Google "Richard Hatch"

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

A question about SARs and structuring. I pay all my taxes honestly. However, due to the neteller $5K EFT limit, i have a bunch of $5k EFTs into my bank instead of one larger one. Am i doing anything wrong or breaking any law? Can i possibly be accused of structuring even though I report and pay taxes on all my winnings?

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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A question about SARs and structuring. I pay all my taxes honestly. However, due to the neteller $5K EFT limit, i have a bunch of $5k EFTs into my bank instead of one larger one. Am i doing anything wrong or breaking any law? Can i possibly be accused of structuring even though I report and pay taxes on all my winnings?

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If you pay all your taxes and can tie all your activity to your tax return, don't worry about structuring. Tax evasion is illegal.

I don't think structuring is illegal. It is a tool people who are committing tax fraud use. therefore, the government looks for structured transactions as a guide on who to investigate for tax evasion. That doesn't mean that everyone who appears to be "structuring" transactions is evading taxes. But it does mean that if your transactions appear to be "structured", you run a higher risk of being audited.

As long as you're paying and can back up your records, I wouldn't worry about it. You get audited, you get audited.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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A question about SARs and structuring. I pay all my taxes honestly. However, due to the neteller $5K EFT limit, i have a bunch of $5k EFTs into my bank instead of one larger one. Am i doing anything wrong or breaking any law? Can i possibly be accused of structuring even though I report and pay taxes on all my winnings?

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If you pay all your taxes and can tie all your activity to your tax return, don't worry about structuring. Tax evasion is illegal.

I don't think structuring is illegal. It is a tool people who are committing tax fraud use. therefore, the government looks for structured transactions as a guide on who to investigate for tax evasion. That doesn't mean that everyone who appears to be "structuring" transactions is evading taxes. But it does mean that if your transactions appear to be "structured", you run a higher risk of being audited.

As long as you're paying and can back up your records, I wouldn't worry about it. You get audited, you get audited.

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Structuring transactions is certainly illegal. However, complying with Neteller's EFT maximum and paying your taxes in whole is not structuring.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Structuring transactions is certainly illegal. However, complying with Neteller's EFT maximum and paying your taxes in whole is not structuring.

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Riddle me this then. If you're paying all your taxes in full and can back up everything, then you can't be structuring. Correct?

Tax evasion is illegal, structuring transactions is a tool used by tax evaders.

FWIW, I think we're saying the same thing.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

Neteller card.
Never use EFT.

Just withdraw all funds from ATM.
No?

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Neteller card.
Never use EFT.

Just withdraw all funds from ATM.
No?

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It amazes me that I still hear this.

NO

There is a record of it as all ATM transactions that occur in the US are processed through an American bank. There is still a paper trail.

This has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum but I'm actually glad you brought it up. Good to dispel that myth once again for those that may think it is kosher.

Just pay your taxes and you'll be fine.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

Attention everyone:

Stop assuming things. Just because you don't want to get audited (it's a huge bitch from what I hear) doesn't mean that you aren't going to pay your taxes.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Structuring transactions is certainly illegal. However, complying with Neteller's EFT maximum and paying your taxes in whole is not structuring.

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Riddle me this then. If you're paying all your taxes in full and can back up everything, then you can't be structuring. Correct?

Tax evasion is illegal, structuring transactions is a tool used by tax evaders.

FWIW, I think we're saying the same thing.

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Structioning is a federal felony. The act of structuring your transactions to avoid the reporting requirement for $10K is the problem. It has nothing to do with taxes.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Is Neteller required to submit account information to the U.S. gov?

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They aren't required to but transactions between neteller and your bank and your neteller ATM can be traced.

However, i can't imagine neteller ever doing anything the US government asks after what just passed.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Structuring transactions is certainly illegal. However, complying with Neteller's EFT maximum and paying your taxes in whole is not structuring.

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Riddle me this then. If you're paying all your taxes in full and can back up everything, then you can't be structuring. Correct?

Tax evasion is illegal, structuring transactions is a tool used by tax evaders.

FWIW, I think we're saying the same thing.

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No, we are not. Structuring taxes to avoid the reporting requirement - regardless of intent to evade taxes - is illegal.

31 USCS § 5324: Structuring transactions to evade reporting requirement prohibited

(a) Domestic coin and currency transactions involving financial institutions. No person shall, for the purpose of evading the reporting requirements of section 5313(a) or 5325 [31 USCS § 5313(a) or 5325] or any regulation prescribed under any such section, the reporting or recordkeeping requirements imposed by any order issued under section 5326 [31 USCS § 5326], or the recordkeeping requirements imposed by any regulation prescribed under section 21 of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act [12 USCS § 1829b] or section 123 of Public Law 91-508 [12 USCS § 1953]--
...[subsections 1&2 omitted]...
(3) structure or assist in structuring, or attempt to structure or assist in structuring, any transaction with one or more domestic financial institutions.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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reporting requirements of section 5313(a) or 5325 [31 USCS § 5313(a) or 5325]

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This is where I'm confused. Is this the requirement that you report foreign accounts over 10K?

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

There is never a CTR on a wire transfer. CTRs are done for cash and cash equivilent transactions. You can not be charged with structuring to avoid reporting for transactions that are not subject to the CTR. Large wire transfers run a risk of being reported on a SAR and the Patriot Act essentially shares all of this kind of activity with the feds anyhow.

Tax evasion is a completely different situation and it is certainly true that it would be trivial for an auditor to find the EFT transactions to/from Neteller. It would be more difficult to find ATM transactions, but still quite possible.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

Go to another country and use the ATM there?

Okay, okay, paper trail right.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

Neteller card gets funded through an American bank.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

As a practical matter a 10KUSD wire transfer just isn't that big of deal. Let's say you sell your house, the closing agent wires the proceeds to your checking account. The next day you EFT the money to your brokerage account to earn more interest. A month later you EFT it back to your checking account. The next day you go to the bank a get a cashiers check to buy your next house. Did anything suspicous happen? I don't think so.

The 10k reporting CTR threshold is for cash (C=Cash) or cash equivalents not checks.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Do you guys pay taxes on what you win, or what you cash out?

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You damn right I do.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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As a practical matter a 10KUSD wire transfer just isn't that big of deal. Let's say you sell your house, the closing agent wires the proceeds to your checking account. The next day you EFT the money to your brokerage account to earn more interest. A month later you EFT it back to your checking account. The next day you go to the bank a get a cashiers check to buy your next house. Did anything suspicous happen? I don't think so.

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Make the transactions international and it gets a bit more suspicious, no?

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The 10k reporting CTR threshold is for cash (C=Cash) or cash equivalents not checks.

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FYI C = Currency.

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Neteller card.
Never use EFT.

Just withdraw all funds from ATM.
No?

[/ QUOTE ]

It amazes me that I still hear this.

NO

There is a record of it as all ATM transactions that occur in the US are processed through an American bank. There is still a paper trail.



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If you get audited, would IRS know to look for Neteller ATM transactions?

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

So NeTeller ATM transactions are connected to you how? The only information that the bank of withdrawl will have on you is what is coded on that magnetic stripe and the picture that the camera takes of you. How does this get to the IRS? And what personal information is on that stripe?

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

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Go to another country and use the ATM there?

Okay, okay, paper trail right.

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Go to another country, marry someone, set up Stars accounts for your inlaws, transfer money to them.

LOL

Re: Neteller and the IRS
 

FWIW I have been assured by bank managers @ 4 different locations that they do not report the EFT's to the IRS, only $10k cash transactions... that being said I still don't trust them and am still paying all my taxes (unfortunately)