Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

Table Table 95860 (No DP) (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Kurtovski ( $75)
Seat 2: Temari0619 ( $24.50)
Seat 3: redrumace ( $18.45)
Seat 4: bdmahony ( $13.95)
Seat 5: BklynDrew ( $35.85)
Seat 6: RUSTYNAILS9 ( $46.95)
Seat 7: Poker_rus ( $42.05)
Seat 8: Patron_Anejo ( $40.05)
Seat 9: blitz9997 ( $25.25)
Seat 10: Scat4theHat ( $68.10)
Poker_rus posts small blind (0.25)
Patron_Anejo posts big blind (0.50)

Holecards:
Dealt to Kurtovski A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, RAISE Kurtovski to 2, fold, CALL redrumace
1 fold, CALL BklynDrew, 2, 3 FOLDS
Flop:
Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Your plan for the hand and why?

** My thoughts/questions: Standard play I would guess is to lead here. I'm starting to question this. I lead into 2 players, one of them calls. Now what? As in the last hand of this, its a coordinated board, I have second pair... The only cards I can comfortably improve with is a non Spade 10.

With any hand I have to ask; what is my plan, what calls a flop bet, what am I ahead of, how can I improve. If I have to shutdown if anyone calls... and I can't call bets on further streets (without a 10)... why am I betting the flop?

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

I've started c/folding in this situation, and I think it is saving me money. Against one player I usually pot it and have that be the last of it. But against two, you are either beat now, or you will be beat later. (Not really, but ROI and all.)

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

I was just about to say check-folding isn't that horrible here. Vvveeeerrry slightly ahead, or way behind. Passive players will probably check it down if you're ahead, so checking works better vs. them. Vs. aggressive players I still lead, because they (well, me) love firing on these scary boards when checked to.

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

Any reads on players? I've seen enough set miners that I think you at least need to get a c-bet in on the flop.

If the flop was A high and you had 2nd pair + a gutshot and the board was 2-suited a c/f would be more reasonable.

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

check/fold is probably the best strategy.

It's a much easier hand to play when you're in position, that much is true [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

One of the players (redrum) was a big calling station. His stack went up and down all night. He's the kind of player who'd bet with hit and draw if checked to and would call with the same.

The second player I don't have as good a read.

But... I feel pretty certain they'd call a flop bet with at least top pair. Obviously anything better then TP will call.

On top of that, a straight or flush draw would call as well.

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

I check/fold oop to 2 players - if I read that correctly.
when the flop is 3 broadway and str8ish and 2 flush and one is a big calling station.

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

I think c/f-ing this flop is okay. Draws will always call, a K will always call, etc, and I dont think at any point will we know where we stand.

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

i like check folding here a lot better than your AA hand. also you should try to find a convertor

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

If I'm at home I can cut and paste right from pokertracker and then I use convertors.

I mostly post during slow periods at work. In which case I use handhistories emailed to me. For some reason, the way its formatted in the emails, none of the convertors work. I've tried them all.

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

Would need reads on the two callers. If they are quite tight players or set miners I lead 100%. If they are lags or quite bad players calling with any face, I consider check folding.

Another factor to the hand is that I dont mind continuation betting into this hand knowing that any callers and I am basically dont with it. I raise alot of hands, and with me I might have the nut straight already and would lead with that also. Alot of players will try to pick off pots with bluffing at coordinated boards, so I think that leading can also be beneficial here. But it really depends on the two callers and how the table has been running, along with your image.

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

Check folding is fine. The only way I bet is if both villains have folds to cb% over 75. Somebody has a K, 2-pair or a better draw.

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

I provide a read on one player. The other I don't know so much about.

The one who calls... basically will call with any piece of it, any draw. If checked to he will bet with same. (he is too loose pf... and so-so postflop. But he does like to bet if anyone shows weakness.)

The problem (based on my read) is if I keep betting, he will call (sometimes raising). If I check, he will bet.

BTW- I cont. bet a lot (depending on position/flop/#of players) with made hands, misses, draws, etc. I only posted these because they were horrible flops and people who will call here with anything, sometimes raise and definitely bet if checked to.

I just found these difficult because of position, the particular players and the flops (completely coordinated and little chance of improvement)

Re: Bad Flop Strategy #2
 

kurto,

This is one of those sucky places where the right play is probably to accept the possibility of folding the best hand.