How do you maximize this crap??
 

The short stack all in obviously has crap, initial raiser obviously high pair most probably aa/kk what is my move to maximize value? I think min raise is too obvious, and all in might scare away. Opponent said i should have flat called but what is my play on river? small bet? That would have definitively worked but i dont get all his stack which is objective...

***** Hand History for Game 5342625878 *****
$5000 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, October 09, 11:04:25 ET 2006
Table Table 124344 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: NastyAsty ( $6162.98 )
Seat 6: hotmark777 ( $9060.66 )
Seat 9: perlu ( $9834.40 )
Seat 4: jkghrtef ( $4875 )
Seat 10: ongelukkig ( $6216 )
Seat 3: Gaahhhh ( $7378 )
Seat 7: lol_donkaments ( $6122.40 )
Seat 1: kineticpop ( $5000 )
Seat 8: Miron113 ( $3569.30 )
Seat 2: Yabai ( $5597 )
NastyAsty posts small blind [$25].
hotmark777 posts big blind [$50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hotmark777 [ 7c 6c ]
lol_donkaments folds.
hotmark777: liar liar pants on fire
Miron113 calls [$50].
ongelukkig: damn lebanese
ongelukkig: keep quiet [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
perlu raises [$250].
ongelukkig folds.
Yabai folds.
Gaahhhh folds.
jkghrtef folds.
NastyAsty folds.
hotmark777 calls [$200].
Miron113 calls [$200].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, 6s, 6h ]
NastyAsty: That's seriously the most boring answer ever
hotmark777: hey we supply you dutch with the best weed
hotmark777 checks.
Miron113 checks.
hotmark777: so if i were u i would keep quiet
perlu bets [$500].
hotmark777 raises [$1500].
Miron113 calls [$1500].
ongelukkig: why do you assume i'm dutch
perlu calls [$1000].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
hotmark777 checks.
Miron113 is all-In [$1819.30]
hotmark777: haha i know
perlu calls [$1819.30].

ME?

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

i like the shove

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

If you think he "obviously" have AA/KK on that board, I like a shove.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

Call. Then shove 6500 into a pot of 10.5k on river and you get his stack; a raise here looks psychologically more dangerous to most players, but if you just call, they'll usually not be able to get away given the "attractive pot odds".

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

There is a very important factor to consider and that is that there is a player all in and thus creating side pot means big hand...

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

MDMA,

Answer your PM [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

call and check river

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

I know mark, but regardless of what you do your action will scream "MONSTER"; I just think that in this situation, it's good to let that pot of 10.5k be there in the middle for river..people love those "pot odds calls" when they see how much is in there, as opposed to you "scaring" them by checkraising. Just a psychological thing, a good player, however, will react pretty much the same regardless of what you do here, but even those might feel "obligated" to call getting like almost "3 times his money" on river.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

Duck, reason I don't like a check on river is that they might actually, given our turn overcall, check behind with kings realizing you looks SUPERSTRONG. I think aces will most likely push anyway, but can't even be 100% sure of that.

But, mainly because of I fear a really good playing checking kings here (which might happen if he thinks we slowplay AA from BB here ever), I think a push is in order.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

Any comments about my turn play? Did i play it good or should i have led out? Or was this the optimal play also?

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

a player good enough to check behind with kings will easily fold kings to our shove (especially with dry side pot). if they are calling with aces, they are certainly shoving to our check.

unless the person is very passive and/or bad i think that shoving lets them get away from things they easily shove with when we check.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

I agree with your points duck; in essence I think it probably works both ways, depending on a specifics players mindset and tendencies..some like to call more (and thus might talk themselves into a bad call with kings which he might have checked behind given the chance), some like to push more (in which pushing ourselves might have made him fold said kings whereas he would push himself otherwise).

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

why not lead turn?

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

This is going to sound so lame... min-raise?

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

[ QUOTE ]
a player good enough to check behind with kings will easily fold kings to our shove (especially with dry side pot). if they are calling with aces, they are certainly shoving to our check.

unless the person is very passive and/or bad i think that shoving lets them get away from things they easily shove with when we check.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think no matter what we do here, the villain is probably going to know he's up against quads 80% of the time. i think this is the line id take in this hand, but shoving on the turn works as well.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

Am I the only one who likes a turn lead better?

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

def not... Cr on flop and turn SCREAMS monster, If i were perlu I would definitely fold KK and likely fold AA to almost any continued action from you because your line looks SOO strong

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

hm,

As played, I like min-raising the turn.

I prefer a turn lead, though. Both a $2000 lead and a turn push have their merits.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

[ QUOTE ]
hm,

As played, I like min-raising the turn.

I prefer a turn lead, though. Both a $2000 lead and a turn push have their merits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone else not in love with the check-raise on the flop?

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

[ QUOTE ]
def not... Cr on flop and turn SCREAMS monster, If i were perlu I would definitely fold KK and likely fold AA to almost any continued action from you because your line looks SOO strong

[/ QUOTE ]

the only hand that beats perlu is quads. Perlu could think he has a slowplayed qq or kk

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
def not... Cr on flop and turn SCREAMS monster, If i were perlu I would definitely fold KK and likely fold AA to almost any continued action from you because your line looks SOO strong

[/ QUOTE ]

the only hand that beats perlu is quads. Perlu could think he has a slowplayed qq or kk

[/ QUOTE ]

i know all of this... I just really doubt those hands check raise twice... esp. w/ a dry sidepot... maybe KK, thats why I don't always fold AA..

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

I call the turn and then shove the river.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

I call turn and bet river

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

open-pushing the turn might work. it might look like you were trying to knock out your deep-stacked opponent, who is very unlikely to have a 6 given the action, with a hand that probably has short stack beat.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

checking turn is terrible, by pushing turn noway AA or KK gets away.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

I like call/shove river although with 90% of the population, it matters little how you get it in, as long as you do.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

[ QUOTE ]
checking turn is terrible, by pushing turn noway AA or KK gets away.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are forgetting one key factor. My plan was to check knowing that the small stack who was playing quite loose would push and thus force the initial raiser to call. That is exactly what happened. By me pushing turn or betting big on turn, i definitely lose the short stack (who ended up having 53 os) and MAYBE lose the high pocket pair. Anyhow by checking turn i was guaranteed 4k, and mind u if the short stack decided to check also, the high pocket pair isnt going to let anyone hit their set and might bet out even more than 2k into a 5k pot. So now do you still then turn check is terrible?

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

i agree with duck.

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

Call turn, bet river and hope the guy is unable to fold overpair (which despite the fact that you might fold it or whatever, I think a lot of people aren't able to) They will convince themselves you are valuebetting with 88 or some [censored].

Re: How do you maximize this crap??
 

Funny that this hand involved two of the worst 100-200 ex regulars.