TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

just letting people reading know this game is happening

feel free to delete

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

excellent game selection by all 3 players. I guess they are more interested in playing high than in good games.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

yeah, eastsideslim (neverwin/dustin) have joined also now. quite amazing to watch - but how do they think the game is EV+?

TLK lost about 150K to erik.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

Who's Erik1223? Eric Lindgren?

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

Full Tilt Poker Game #1079338069: Table Mirasol (6 max) - $1000/$2000 - Limit Hold'em - 11:01:52 ET - 2006/10/08
Seat 1: Erik1223 ($193,442.50)
Seat 3: TexasLimitKing ($117,428)
Seat 4: eastsideslim ($59,984.50)
eastsideslim posts the small blind of $500
Erik1223 posts the big blind of $1,000
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
TexasLimitKing raises to $2,000
eastsideslim folds
Erik1223 calls $1,000
*** FLOP *** [Td 6c 5h]
Erik1223 checks
TexasLimitKing bets $1,000
Erik1223 calls $1,000
*** TURN *** [Td 6c 5h] [Qc]
Erik1223 checks
TexasLimitKing bets $2,000
Erik1223 raises to $4,000
TexasLimitKing raises to $6,000
Erik1223 calls $2,000
*** RIVER *** [Td 6c 5h Qc] [8d]
Erik1223 checks
TexasLimitKing bets $2,000
Erik1223 calls $2,000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TexasLimitKing shows [4c 3c] (Queen Ten high)
Erik1223 shows [5c 9c] (a pair of Fives)
Erik1223 wins the pot ($22,499) with a pair of Fives
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $22,500 | Rake $1
Board: [Td 6c 5h Qc 8d]
Seat 1: Erik1223 (big blind) showed [5c 9c] and won ($22,499) with a pair of Fives
Seat 3: TexasLimitKing (button) showed [4c 3c] and lost with Queen Ten high
Seat 4: eastsideslim (small blind) folded before the Flop

My god, sick call down.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

Just because they are all good players doesn't mean one can't have an edge over the other. Also, differences between A, B and C game become very important and could potentially give a player quite an edge. But generally, expect variance to be higher.

Regards

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who's Erik1223? Eric Lindgren?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sagstrom

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

TLK lost another 100K - then reloaded a million...

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

tlk did it again against neverwin

edit: whoops, thought there was 4 hearts on board. ill leave it up anyway for no reason

Full Tilt Poker Game #1079578633: Table Mirasol (6 max) - $1000/$2000 - Limit Hold'em - 12:53:36 ET - 2006/10/08
Seat 1: Erik1223 ($149,607.50)
Seat 2: SxMxF ($60,209.50)
Seat 3: TexasLimitKing ($1,001,705)
Seat 4: eastsideslim ($140,115.50)
Seat 5: BigBadMomma69 ($36,812)
TexasLimitKing posts the small blind of $500
eastsideslim posts the big blind of $1,000
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
BigBadMomma69 folds
Erik1223 folds
SxMxF folds
TexasLimitKing raises to $2,000
eastsideslim calls $1,000
*** FLOP *** [Qd 3h 2h]
TexasLimitKing bets $1,000
eastsideslim calls $1,000
*** TURN *** [Qd 3h 2h] [4h]
TexasLimitKing bets $2,000
eastsideslim raises to $4,000
TexasLimitKing calls $2,000
*** RIVER *** [Qd 3h 2h 4h] [Td]
TexasLimitKing checks
eastsideslim bets $2,000
TexasLimitKing calls $2,000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
eastsideslim shows [Kd 8d] (King Queen high)
TexasLimitKing shows [6s 3s] (a pair of Threes)
TexasLimitKing wins the pot ($17,997) with a pair of Threes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $18,000 | Rake $3
Board: [Qd 3h 2h 4h Td]
Seat 1: Erik1223 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: SxMxF (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: TexasLimitKing (small blind) showed [6s 3s] and won ($17,997) with a pair of Threes
Seat 4: eastsideslim (big blind) showed [Kd 8d] and lost with King Queen high
Seat 5: BigBadMomma69 didn't bet (folded)

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

gus just joined the game

Gus Hansen: this is insane
Gus Hansen: 3 best limit holdem players in the
world and me

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

Gus Hansen sits down, TLK now sitting with $1m.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

Gus Hansen: 3 best limit holdem players in the
world and me

lol

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

Did you notice the turn card when he turns a flush draw with his pair vs the straight and flush draw. Calling with any pair is standard HU.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

TLK is just getting owned by Luigi, although it's slightly misleading. Luigi is getting hit with the deck, flopping top pair all over the place.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

who is tlk?

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

could you guys just keep this high limit fanboy stuff in nvg or something, it's really dull.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
could you guys just keep this high limit fanboy stuff in nvg or something, it's really dull and the reason most real players hardly post strategy anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could you guys just keep this high limit fanboy stuff in nvg or something, it's really dull and the reason most real players hardly post strategy anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate on this?

I watched some of this game the last couple of days because it was my understanding that the guys playing were some of the top limit players in the world. I posted about two hands from this game yesterday that I thought were incorrectly played and why and there was almost zero strategic discussion. The consensus is apparently that any play at any time may or may not be correct based on "metagame" or "flow".

If that is the case I would very much like to know what metagme factors or what specifically must have flowed make what appear to me to be mathematical mistakes correct. I am not a fanboy of these guys or anyone else, but I am very much interested in the decisions that better players make and the reasons that they make them.

Thanks,
Cartman

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could you guys just keep this high limit fanboy stuff in nvg or something, it's really dull and the reason most real players hardly post strategy anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahahaha. seriously james, dont try to falsely justify why theres lack of real high stakes discussion here. you guys werent posting far before these "fanboy" posts started popping up.

your reasons for not posting much are valid and im not criticizing them. but cmon. dont be so condescending to those trying to discuss bc they dont know all the answers yet.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

Where are you getting the hand history from? I thought I saw this hand and could've sworn the 5 came on the river...

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
The consensus is apparently that any play at any time may or may not be correct based on "metagame" or "flow".

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of these guys from the Neverwin camp play too many hands, even considering their formidable postflop skills. Deciding to "mix it up" with K7o out of position is one such example of this. But it's a fairly unremarkable play nevertheless.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The consensus is apparently that any play at any time may or may not be correct based on "metagame" or "flow".

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of these guys from the Neverwin camp play too many hands, even considering their formidable postflop skills. Deciding to "mix it up" with K7o out of position is one such example of this. But it's a fairly unremarkable play nevertheless.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree but I also think that damn near nothing that transpires in a HU limit hand would qualify as "remarkable". Most of us have played hundreds of thousands of hands and have literally seen it all as far as what can transpire within a limit hand. We also all know that "it depends" is frequently the answer. But the nature of the game is such that once a player gets beyond a certain caliber he will very rarely make a massive error. That doesnt mean that the small errors don't matter. The "best" players are the ones who are the most adept at making the "right" choices when confronted with tough decisions--choices which are by their very nature going to be only slightly better than or worse than the nearest alternative.

I thought both rivers in my thread were misplayed and I still think they were misplayed. If they were intentionally misplayed for the purpose of creating or furthering an image or some other reason, then that is fine. But we can't create the whole picture including the flow, texture, or recnet history of the game in a few lines of a thread. That means that dicussing hands in a vacuum is about the best we can do. Of course it isn't perfect, but that doesnt mean it isn't productive.

Cartman

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The consensus is apparently that any play at any time may or may not be correct based on "metagame" or "flow".

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of these guys from the Neverwin camp play too many hands, even considering their formidable postflop skills. Deciding to "mix it up" with K7o out of position is one such example of this. But it's a fairly unremarkable play nevertheless.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree but I also think that damn near nothing that transpires in a HU limit hand would qualify as "remarkable". Most of us have played hundreds of thousands of hands and have literally seen it all as far as what can transpire within a limit hand. We also all know that "it depends" is frequently the answer. But the nature of the game is such that once a player gets beyond a certain caliber he will very rarely make a massive error. That doesnt mean that the small errors don't matter. The "best" players are the ones who are the most adept at making the "right" choices when confronted with tough decisions--choices which are by their very nature going to be only slightly better than or worse than the nearest alternative.

I thought both rivers in my thread were misplayed and I still think they were misplayed. If they were intentionally misplayed for the purpose of creating or furthering an image or some other reason, then that is fine. But we can't create the whole picture including the flow, texture, or recnet history of the game in a few lines of a thread. That means that dicussing hands in a vacuum is about the best we can do. Of course it isn't perfect, but that doesnt mean it isn't productive.

Cartman

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post...Refreshing in High Stakes especially.

- Jeff

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
But the nature of the game is such that once a player gets beyond a certain caliber he will very rarely make a massive error.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree in that I think pretty much every player has blind spots. Oftentimes these are obvious things like game selection or playing too many hands before the flop but they can also be more subtle like tending to continuation bet on the turn too often. However, these players also often have extraordinary gifts, such as choosing the right bluffing frequencies or being excellent at manipulating their table image. Limit hold 'em is a fairly forgiving game IMO and one in which a player's strengths will tend to outshine his weaknesses.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]

I disagree in that I think pretty much every player has blind spots. Oftentimes these are obvious things like game selection or playing too many hands before the flop but they can also be more subtle like tending to continuation bet on the turn too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure we are disagreeing. I think you are right that most players have leaks. My contention is that these leaks are the sum of many small errors. For instance continuation betting too much can be a big leak, but rarely will any one particular continuation bet be a big error.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nice post...Refreshing in High Stakes especially.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup...i read all these forums daily and if you want to find good hand analysis your best bet is mid-high shorthanded or something.

Let me just say that if Cartman thinks a hand is even mildly interesting, I would be willing to spend the whole night analyzing it.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

I watched a 1k/2k on Full Tilt today with TLK, Erik1223, Luigi, and Benyamine and I thought I learned some interesting things about why these guys are "the best" at limit holdem, definitely some ideas I can incorporate into my own very shorthanded game. As long as the posts aren't "OMG Antonius has a million dollars on the table!!!" I think a lot can be learned from trying to deconstruct the way these guys play.

-DeathDonkey

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

im not a high stakes limit player, maybe a bit of a fanboy -but i posted because i live in aus and thought some high stakes players may be interested to watch or even play that were only reading 2+2 - and they would not see it in the FTP lobby or NVG for that matter. i honestly wouldnt mind if a mod deleted the thread, but it seems like some people appreciate the notice

truthfully i think the majority of plays/ strategy goes way over my head, but hopefully some HSplayers can gain from watching

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could you guys just keep this high limit fanboy stuff in nvg or something, it's really dull and the reason most real players hardly post strategy anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

You can be sure that high stakes players aren't discussing strategy on such online forums. The nuts are too valuable to share them with everyone for nothing. If you pay $600/hour for lessons you may pick up a few gems, but that's about it.

I should add that there is no point in discussion high stakes HU hands either.

Q: Why did Ivey call with just queen high?
A: Because he always calls with everything > 9!

All of these hands have to be seen as part of an overall strategy. Individually they make absolutely no sense at all.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

wow TLK took a beating today. i have him down 600k with most of the ass whopping cmoing from TerrorOfSweden, winning340k. wow a 21hr session from TLK. i noticed TerrorOfSweden played TLk really agrressive compared to anyone before him, like capping alot of hands preflop, and lots of capping on flop. either TLK was tilting but it seems like most hands was capped PF.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

what kind of bankroll does these guys have?

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

who is TLK??

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

terror of sweden is fast_freddie , the dude who won the biggest ever online pot vs Bad-ip on prima . Hes seriously good at every game it seems . he was also gargamoyle(sp) who used to play 1k 2k limit on another site cant remember which 1 now.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
who is TLK??

[/ QUOTE ]

TLK is a swedish guy born in 1986. Plays only FLT and is not famous. Plays no donkaments whatsoever...

Terror of Sweden (aka the terrorist aka fast freddie) is also swedish . He has arabic origin...

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

Well ure so off u dont even know...... TerrorOfSweden said himself that he won about 40k trough out that session.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
could you guys just keep this high limit fanboy stuff in nvg or something, it's really dull and the reason most real players hardly post strategy anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I haven't seen you post anything useful the last year.
Are you sour or something.

Maybe you can learn something from players who are 10 times as good as you are. I'm sure I will if hands is discussed.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
could you guys just keep this high limit fanboy stuff in nvg or something, it's really dull and the reason most real players hardly post strategy anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahahaha. seriously james, dont try to falsely justify why theres lack of real high stakes discussion here. you guys werent posting far before these "fanboy" posts started popping up.

your reasons for not posting much are valid and im not criticizing them. but cmon. dont be so condescending to those trying to discuss bc they dont know all the answers yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this post is only a microcosm of a general forum attitude that is tiresome. Ever since the inception of BBV, this forum became ALL ABOUT glorifying high stakes players - and not for their ideas - but for the amount of $$ that they have won. I fall for the BBV trap too, getting involved in the childish banter that goes on there...but as the focus of the forum goes towards being in love with big results and various players who are the flavor of the week, it becomes far less stimulating for people who like to engage in challenging and thought provoking discussion. There are certainly other reasons people stop posting, but this shift in focus is the primary one for me, at least.
-James

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

What "ideas" do you want us to discuss here? The guy with 75% VIP beats the guy with 79% VIP in a a jamming contest. I mean those HU matches don't leave much room for anything other than glorifying the winner.

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

[ QUOTE ]
What "ideas" do you want us to discuss here? The guy with 75% VIP beats the guy with 79% VIP in a a jamming contest. I mean those HU matches don't leave much room for anything other than glorifying the winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about you go play one of them HU. Must be pretty simple to attain a 75-79% Vpip, then just jam a lot. I'm sure if you speak to them they'll be willing to pay you $1k/hr for this meaningless exercise!

Re: TLK v Erik1223 1k-2k ftp
 

I guess I wouldn't do much worse than Phil Ivey. He got cleaned out by TLK the last few days when I was watching.