continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

Out of curiousity I recently started recording what I was winning/losing with continuation bets. I include times where I have KK/QQ/JJ and an overcard hits because I don't really want a call there and will have to give up to any aggression. Well in just this past day of playing I've lost 100$ just on continuation bets, which is what I thought. I'm losing money by continuation betting.

So.... I am profitable with AK/AQ/AJ and all pair type hands, so obviously continuation betting isn't making me unprofitable here, and its possible I am just running bad. But it definitely does seem like a leak, how do I adjust my play accordingly? Raising AK/AQ/AJ seems really pointless if you aren't going to make a continuation bet, it seems like you are going to get the pot taken away from you very often. Limping them sucks as well. Well I have no idea what I need to do, any ideas?

PS. I only try continuation bets against 1-2 opponents and I usually bet near pot size (7 into 8, 8 into 10, etc)

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

Options:

1. Stop doing them. (not a bad option) &
2. Raise so you get 3-4 callers, that way you're always drawing with odds and don't need to continuation bet.

3. Don't continuation bet heads up, do it into 2-4 players. Amazingly, this works even better than heads up if you bet large enough.

4. Make it larger.

5. Don't do it every time you raise, it's too predictable.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Options:

1. Stop doing them. (not a bad option) &
2. Raise so you get 3-4 callers, that way you're always drawing with odds and don't need to continuation bet.

3. Don't continuation bet heads up, do it into 2-4 players. Amazingly, this works even better than heads up if you bet large enough.

4. Make it larger.

5. Don't do it every time you raise, it's too predictable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some good points, thanks for the ideas.

Do you think you could elaborate on point #2? I don't quite understand.

I like point #3, they are a lot less likely to call you with trash hands like bottom pair if its 3-4 way and you pot it. Then again, its more likely someone hit a big hand like a set etc. But now that I thinka bout it when its multi-way my continuation bets seem to work pretty decently.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
2. Raise so you get 3-4 callers, that way you're always drawing with odds and don't need to continuation bet.

3. Don't continuation bet heads up, do it into 2-4 players. Amazingly, this works even better than heads up if you bet large enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sell these to me, 'cause I ain't buyin'. Mathematically you're far more likely to be behind against 2-4 than you are headup. Are you saying the psychological power of "He's betting into three of us, must have something" can overcome this? How? And I don't think I even understand #2. Why would you want to encourage a multiway pot with offsuit high cards?

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sell these to me, 'cause I ain't buyin'. Mathematically you're far more likely to be behind against 2-4 than you are headup. Are you saying the psychological power of "He's betting into three of us, must have something" can overcome this? How? And I don't think I even understand #2. Why would you want to encourage a multiway pot with offsuit high cards?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think with #3 you are representing a big pair far more believably and they just aren't going to call you down with a small pp or bottom pair or the bs they call with heads up. Realistically if it ever gets multi-way and I have a pp and I bet near the pot its almost always folded around and if its not I'm usually beat anyways. It'd have to be tested I guess. I'd say about 3 players is the max to try it with though, 4 is probably pushing it.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

I'd love to see a response to this from other players as well because i know today it seemed like every time I got AK AQ or AJ and raised, everyone and their mama was eager as could be to get in there and raise my continuation bet on the flop. But when I had AA->JJ everyone just folds pre flop and I take down the blinds.. wonderful. And then ofcourse when you decide to look someone up with 88 or try to play back at someone with AK on a missed board you just end up getting burnt. I noticed at the 10/20 pstars tables alot of players dont continuation bet at all when raising pre flop. I've been trying to think of a way to figure out when to continuation bet and when not to and I think what im going to stat doing is paying close close close attention to the action of other players. Who is calling alot of pre flop raises, who's tight pre flop... on the flop who is willing to fold alot when missing the flop and who shows resistance? I will watch the action more closely so I know who is probably a good person I can continuation bet against and who simply isn't.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd love to see a response to this from other players as well because i know today it seemed like every time I got AK AQ or AJ and raised, everyone and their mama was eager as could be to get in there and raise my continuation bet on the flop. But when I had AA->JJ everyone just folds pre flop and I take down the blinds.. wonderful. And then ofcourse when you decide to look someone up with 88 or try to play back at someone with AK on a missed board you just end up getting burnt. I noticed at the 10/20 pstars tables alot of players dont continuation bet at all when raising pre flop. I've been trying to think of a way to figure out when to continuation bet and when not to and I think what im going to stat doing is paying close close close attention to the action of other players. Who is calling alot of pre flop raises, who's tight pre flop... on the flop who is willing to fold alot when missing the flop and who shows resistance? I will watch the action more closely so I know who is probably a good person I can continuation bet against and who simply isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

You just worded what's been happening to me perfectly, preach on!

Yeah I think what you are saying about knowing the other player is prob the most sensible advice. Maybe the default action should be no continuation bet except against the 15/5 or less players. I also notice that if I build up a big stack my bets "seem" to be respected more. Nearly always doing a continuation bet is probably what you definitely DO NOT want to do whatever the case.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

the most important part of continuation bets is the texture of the flop i feel and number of players left in the hand.
If there are 2-3 players in the hand still no point really unless u've hit your hand.
If its a draw heavy board where hte continuation bet isnt likely to succeed in knocking out a player then use it less.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
>2. Raise so you get 3-4 callers, that way you're always drawing with odds and don't need to continuation bet.
3. Don't continuation bet heads up, do it into 2-4 players. Amazingly, this works even better than heads up if you bet large enough.
Sell these to me, 'cause I ain't buyin'.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you want to encourage a multiway pot with offsuit high cards?

[/ QUOTE ]

2: I did a thread about this a while ago: 'AKo - conventional wisdom is wrong.' Most of the respected posters disagreed, a couple agreed. Basically, my point came down to this:

AKo is basically a drawing hand, and if you flop and A or K, it's very likely you have the best hand. Do the numbers if you don't believe me. This is because:
> Dominated hands are very unlikely to flop two pair (say KQ, AJ) at the same time you flop a pair (roughly 12%)
> SCs will flop a worthwhile hand 5.5% of the time (using all three flop cards).
> There is only an ~50% chance that someone has a pocket pair, and it's only hitting a set 8.5% of the time (1 time in 12) using two flop cards (the third is your A or K). So, ~4%
> A random hand will flop two pair or better less than 3% of the time.

Also, raising less with AKo gets weaker (Kx, Ax) hands to call that might not otherwise, and you can be guaranteed they're putting more money in when they hit top pair against a weak preflop raiser.

OP said he's constantly continuation betting heads up, and getting called/raised or having the pot stolen. This is bad. If you're not going to continuation bet, you're basically drawing for an A or K on the flop to continue with the hand, which is 1 in 3. In this case you want two or more people in the pot to make your 'draw' +EV. And just to clarify, you should be raising, both to build a pot and to limit the field somewhat, but going gung ho and trying to get AKo heads up is -EV imo.

3.
This come solely from my experiences. I've found that continuation betting into a large field (especially OOP), has the best results. Maybe others can add something.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

I'm really tired, but I'll post a couple of thoughts before I hit the sack.

1) Don't bet too much for your continuation bets... I usually bet between 1/2 and 2/3rds of the pot. Sometimes 3/4ths. Never larger. The less you bet, the less often they need to work to be profitable.

2) Think about the flop texture when you bet. Something like 9-7-6 is not a great flop to bet your AK on.

3) Don't make continuation bets everytime you raise preflop. ~60-75% is probably ideal.

4) Don't make continuation bets into loose players that are liable to call you with any piece of the board. These are fish who need to be value bet, not bluffed. Also, pay attention in between hands so you can figure out who the AK cops are.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Out of curiousity I recently started recording what I was winning/losing with continuation bets. I include times where I have KK/QQ/JJ and an overcard hits because I don't really want a call there and will have to give up to any aggression. Well in just this past day of playing I've lost 100$ just on continuation bets, which is what I thought. I'm losing money by continuation betting.

So.... I am profitable with AK/AQ/AJ and all pair type hands, so obviously continuation betting isn't making me unprofitable here, and its possible I am just running bad. But it definitely does seem like a leak, how do I adjust my play accordingly? Raising AK/AQ/AJ seems really pointless if you aren't going to make a continuation bet, it seems like you are going to get the pot taken away from you very often. Limping them sucks as well. Well I have no idea what I need to do, any ideas?

PS. I only try continuation bets against 1-2 opponents and I usually bet near pot size (7 into 8, 8 into 10, etc)

[/ QUOTE ]

If playesrs limp and then call your raise, they often have a PP. If the flop comes 852, they often fancy their chances against your "whiffed" A-big. Checking behind sometimes on these kinds of flops (and correspondingly checking behind on Axx or Kxx flops where you have top pair) is certainly worth doing.

In case 1 - you might turn one of your cards, and they might bet into you, or they might check-the turn and you might take the pot there.

In case 2 - weaker hands might bet into you, allowing you to make more money from your top pair hand, without risking getting check-raised and playing a big pot with it, and without risking lots of folds by your opponents.

The texture of the flop is very important in making a continuation bet, as is the hand-range that you can put your opponent on. Also - you may well have to fire two barrells at least some of the time when you are bluffing, or players will call you to see what you do on the turn, and take the pot away from you there very often.

Your opponents are evil - you must conquer them with your goodness.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

One good tip is to bet the turn from time to time, especially with position. If you continuation bet like 80% and then bet turn like 33% when called on flop, you'll actually do fairly decently.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
One good tip is to bet the turn from time to time, especially with position. If you continuation bet like 80% and then bet turn like 33% when called on flop, you'll actually do fairly decently.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. There's something in Ciaffone's book about the key to his success and he said it was "knowing when to fire the second barrel".

Of course a little of this goes a long way, don't turn into a bluffing machine.

Another tip is this: Be more likely to continuation bet in position after they being checked to than from OOP.

I also agree with betting 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot. Rarely are they folding for a pot bet when they would call 2/3.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

Also when you do hit the flop and youre OOP , check raise from time to time. I dont C/R much in NL, but this is one situation where I do. This will make your continuation bets a little more credible as well.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
4) Don't make continuation bets into loose players that are liable to call you with any piece of the board. These are fish who need to be value bet, not bluffed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fish is a player who always fold to continuation bet without 2pair/set.
In practice is almost always good to call with anything cause most people when raising preflop with AK feel entitled to win the pot whatever comes.

Best wishes

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]

In practice is almost always good to call with anything cause most people when raising preflop with AK feel entitled to win the pot whatever comes.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is not almost always good. What do you do when I see you calling all these continuation bets and start firing 2/3 of the pot on the turn? Keep assuming I missed my AK and call?

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If playesrs limp and then call your raise, they often have a PP. If the flop comes 852, they often fancy their chances against your "whiffed" A-big. Checking behind sometimes on these kinds of flops (and correspondingly checking behind on Axx or Kxx flops where you have top pair) is certainly worth doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean like this?

Shed some light on an old thread [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

even if the actual continuation bets are -EV if they help your table image they can be +ev.

i probably continuation bet 50%, and fire on the turn 1/4, but that really depends on the opponent. the more hands you play the more you get a sense of when the flop hit them and when it didnt. also youll learn who will check fold and who will check with a hand expecting you to bet.


and the person who said continuation bets can work better in large pots actually has a point. though this is high risk and i dont do it often, and when i do i need a read.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

Go back and memorize Harrington's chapter on continuation bets. There are lots more guidelines there and in the hands at the end that you should be following. Your continuation bets are bigger than Harrington suggests, btw. Also make sure you do not make a cb at every flop with 1 or 2 players. Harrington suggests about 50% or so, as I recall. So you pick the really bad half of flops and check them, based on texture, number of opponents and type of opponents.

Continuation bets are bluffs. Your opponents know you are only gonna hit the flop about a third of the time. So if you are betting too high a percentage of flops, your opponents know you are full of it most of the time, and are just looking you up.

Also, make sure you are not continuation betting at the flops that have the highest probability of having hit your opponent(s). Again, look to Harrington for advice on this.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

I posted a similar thread a few weeks ago, about my unsuccessful continuation betting system. I've developed a sort of "session strategy" since then that has been quite successful.

For the first 50 hands or so, do not continuation bet much (less than 50%). At this time, other players like to think that every flop bet from you is a steal, and you'll get lots of callers.

During these hands, show down only a few, and make sure that they are strong hands - this gives you a sort of credibility at the table.

After showing that "you only value bet", continuation betting will be at least 2x as successful, because now your opponents will have switched to the mindset of "if he's betting, he's got it!"

It's funny how you are often just placed into category A (always bluffing) or category B(bets good hands); if you can be aware of your standing in this respect, you will be much more successful in terms of these missed AK, AQ, AJ, etc...

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

If someone could pretty much summaraize or type what harrington's suggestions on continuation betting says that would be great.. if not i'll have to wait until I get a chance to run out to the book store to buy the book. I was waiting to do that for when I was going to start playing MTT's more.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If someone could pretty much summaraize or type what harrington's suggestions on continuation betting says that would be great.. if not i'll have to wait until I get a chance to run out to the book store to buy the book. I was waiting to do that for when I was going to start playing MTT's more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have time to summarize it but I just wanted to say that I think HOH Vol 1 is the best book out there if you want ideas for beating small stakes NLHE cash games with 100xBB stacks or less.

Anyways, I think Malachii's post is golden and summarizes everything I would have said to OP.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been trying to think of a way to figure out when to continuation bet and when not to and I think what im going to stat doing is paying close close close attention to the action of other players. Who is calling alot of pre flop raises, who's tight pre flop... on the flop who is willing to fold alot when missing the flop and who shows resistance? I will watch the action more closely so I know who is probably a good person I can continuation bet against and who simply isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the key. I've been getting my ass kicked with continuation bets too, so I started being much more selective about the situations in which I do them. Amazingly, they seem to work better HU and against someone who limps and then calls a raise with just about anything. My guess is this: they could have just about any two cards, paired or not, and the chances of them hitting top pair or having an overpair is very low. I don't know (because I normally have to fold), but I suspect that when tighter players, esp. behind me, call it's normally because they have a "small big pair"--ie 10-10, J-J, or Q-Q. When no overs hit, they take it as a green ligth to bet/raise away, or at least call my flop bet and then bet when I check the turn. Anyone else find this?

Anyway, CB against a weak player HU seem to be much more effective than against a stronger player, for me at least. I think this is because the stronger players actually have a real hand, well the weaker players have absolute BS.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

A lot of stuff in Vol I is applicable for ring games. You really should pick it up anyway if you play NL.

Edit: The first chapter in Vol II is also applicable to ring play, but the rest of the book is mostly specific to tournaments. So maybe you read Chapter 1 of Vol II at Barnes & Noble, but buy Vol I.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

Malachi summarized most of Harrington's advice:[ QUOTE ]
I'm really tired, but I'll post a couple of thoughts before I hit the sack.

1) Don't bet too much for your continuation bets... I usually bet between 1/2 and 2/3rds of the pot. Sometimes 3/4ths. Never larger. The less you bet, the less often they need to work to be profitable.

2) Think about the flop texture when you bet. Something like 9-7-6 is not a great flop to bet your AK on.

3) Don't make continuation bets everytime you raise preflop. ~60-75% is probably ideal.

4) Don't make continuation bets into loose players that are liable to call you with any piece of the board. These are fish who need to be value bet, not bluffed. Also, pay attention in between hands so you can figure out who the AK cops are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would add that Malachi has a higher percentage on how much to bet than Harrington, but that could very well be better advice because Harrington was speaking in general whereas Malachi is talking about SSNL online.

I would also add that in order to make continuation betting effective, you also have to check raise some.

Other Harrington: CB into one opponent is ok, into two is riskier, into >2 usually bad.

Pay attention to position; CB more late, obviously, after it's checked to you.

You have to pick your flops very carefully: what Malachi and Harrington have to say about texture is vital--you have to save your continuation bets for flops that probably didn't hit anybody else, or at least didn't hit them hard.

And the opponent's style matters, too: the tighter they are, the more the flop can have hit them. Generally don't cb bet into maniacs, or even lags, as they will call with any piece of the flop or any draw.

Basically, just remember that it is a bluff, and all the normal considerations come into play.

Lastly, note what Harrington says on odds: if you make a 1/2 pot CB, it only has to work 1 time in 3 to be break even, so don't sweat a short run where they are all getting called, if you are taking good shots.

That was from memory, so someone please correct any defects in my recollection of what Harrington says. Thanks.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

In my experience he'll call the flop bet and then fold the turn.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of stuff in Vol I is applicable for ring games. You really should pick it up anyway if you play NL.

Edit: The first chapter in Vol II is also applicable to ring play, but the rest of the book is mostly specific to tournaments. So maybe you read Chapter 1 of Vol II at Barnes & Noble, but buy Vol I.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or buy both and play some tournaments. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

In my experience they'll call the flop bet, see if you have the heart to fire a bullet on the turn, and if not... they bet huge on the river.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

you should be aware that a small sample size of hands may skew your results. it could be that you are just running bad. in general, my modus operandi is to play hands that i make continuation bets with the same way i play big pairs. i make adjustments when necessary depending on my opponents' tendencies and other table dynamics. in heads up and 3 way raised pots i generally keep in mind the following details:

- how often does my opponent call preflop raises
- how often will he bet the turn if checked to
- how often will he bet the river if i check behind on the turn
- how often have i been raising preflop and can my opponent adjust accordingly
- how often can he bluff (call or bet) on each street

what you may want to do is play super tight for the first few orbits so that you're able to get a feel for the hand ranges that your opponents will have in these situations.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

This is really good, and I agree with you. Do you have a link to that thread.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

what is your definition of weaker vs stronger.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

Yep. So fire away!

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
what is your definition of weaker vs stronger.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this particular case, I meant someone who plays a lot of hands and will then call raises but doesn't go crazy after the flop. By stronger, I meant someone who plays many fewer hands and can't necessarily be pushed off if they think they're good. For this particular play, I like to do it in position and against someone who will call all kinds of hands preflop but not necessarily call you down with any pair. Often even if they call the flop they'll then fold to the second barrel on the turn, unless they have something good, of course.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

where would you put in the players who will play any two but can narrow down your hand range effectively enough to take the pot away from you on a later street if certain cards fall? you've completely disregarded the times when opponents will play back at you and you will be forced to fold with the best hand sometimes.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
where would you put in the players who will play any two but can narrow down your hand range effectively enough to take the pot away from you on a later street if certain cards fall? you've completely disregarded the times when opponents will play back at you and you will be forced to fold with the best hand sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

YOu're right. Thank you. My definition was not entirely complete. My point was that you have to do CB in good situations and very dependent upon the player. My experience lately, which I'm not sure is right but it's been working so far, is that I don't CB against tight solid players. It just seems to me that they likely have a small big pair. CBs seem to work best, for me at least, against opponents whom I have position on and who will call plenty of raises with weak hands. The chances of them hitting the flop are not very good, so you can often push them off. Obviously, if you know the player will make a play on you no matter what, then you should probably just take the free card. My overall point was that tighther/stronger players who call your preflop raise are much more likely to have a real hand, so it's harder to get them off of it with an xxx flop. Well, a weaker/looser player is likely to have something like J-10 K-9s, A-7o, so that a CB on an xxx flop seems to be more effective (assuming they are not the type to call you down with any pair). I point this out only b/c it seemed a little counterintuitive to me. Everyone seems to always say CB against tighter players and not agaisnt looser players. But this goes against my experience.

Sorry for not covering 100% of the possible situations. Is there anything else I forgot? Please let me know.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really tired, but I'll post a couple of thoughts before I hit the sack.

1) Don't bet too much for your continuation bets... I usually bet between 1/2 and 2/3rds of the pot. Sometimes 3/4ths. Never larger. The less you bet, the less often they need to work to be profitable.

2) Think about the flop texture when you bet. Something like 9-7-6 is not a great flop to bet your AK on.

3) Don't make continuation bets everytime you raise preflop. ~60-75% is probably ideal.

4) Don't make continuation bets into loose players that are liable to call you with any piece of the board. These are fish who need to be value bet, not bluffed. Also, pay attention in between hands so you can figure out who the AK cops are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great points, one question on #1 though... are you betting like this with your made hands as well? That's the only reason I bet near the pot, I want to be consistent with how I bet when I actually have a hand. But I suppose I could vary how I bet with my made hands as well.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. Stop doing them. (not a bad option)

[/ QUOTE ]

Talk about making yourself predictable . . .

[ QUOTE ]
2. Raise so you get 3-4 callers, that way you're always drawing with odds and don't need to continuation bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHy raise at all then?

[ QUOTE ]
3. Don't continuation bet heads up, do it into 2-4 players. Amazingly, this works even better than heads up if you bet large enough..

[/ QUOTE ]

Continuation betting into a 4 person field, particularly OOP, is pure chip spewing. This is frighteningly bad advice. Super aggro players fare much better in SH games precisely because they are banging away at flops HU and taking down a lot of pots where both players miss. If your theory were correct, LAG play of this sort would be best suited to full ring, which is surely wrong.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

I use a combination of flop texture/my hand strength/individual player reads to determine whether to cbet or not. In general, if I think my opponents connected on the flop I don't cbet. If I don't think they connected I cbet.

Obviously, the more players, the more likely for someone to connect so I am less likely to cbet into a big field. It's player dependant, but I will also fire a second shot on a safe turn and find it very profitable since alot of people appear to float the flop cbet and 'believe' me after my turn cbet.

I generally don't cbet into small pots. (I wonder if this skews poker tracker stats for those who use PT and help me steal big pots later...)

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

i think continuation betting works best if you have a big range of raising hands. plus i only like doing it with 1 or 2 others in the pot with me, maybe more if the board is really dry and i have position.

with this play you can also make a lot of money out of those people who like looking you up, for example raising a,k preflop, flop comes king high, he checks you bet pot, he flat calls, no scare cards on turn he checks you check, and then on river he will either bet or check so that you can either call the bet, or bet the river, about pot size.

from this i have got lots of calls from people with pocket 8's to jacks on a king or ace high board when i have either of those cards.

Re: continuation bets losing money, how do I adjust?
 

c-betting into 4 players, that's something I used to do.

The math for this is really simple:

if you bet 2/3 pot, then the odds of you winning the pot, 1, must be p and the odds of you getting called (and losing) 2/3 are 1-p.

So the formula is:

1p=2/3(1-p)

p=.4 <- villains must fold 40% for this to be break even.

To figure out how often each villain must fold to achieve .4 is a function:

x^v=.4, where v is # of villains and x is their odds to fold,

x=.4^(1/v)

for 1 opponent: x=.4
for 2 opponents: x=.63
for 3 opponents: x=.74
for 4 opponents: x=.80
for 5 opponents: x=.83

you can see that with 3 opponents, they each have to fold 75% of the time for this to be break even, and for 4 they each have to fold 80% of the time.

Some of these times you will outdraw them, or maybe you'll have positional advantage, so maybe sometimes you can c-bet into 3 opponents, but c-betting into 4 opponents looks suicidal, at least from a mathematical point.

That being said, my flop aggression is 5, which indicates that I c-bet way too much. I almost always c-bet 1 or 2 opponents and never c-bet into 3+.