How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

Here is my story. I started playing Texas Hold'em in January of this year at a local B&M. They had $2-4 limit there for a while. I would try it out every couple of weeks with very little success, but I didn't loose too much either. I then read Jone's Low Limit book and went on a hot streak.....a streak for me. I actually had winning nights. Then I entered my first ever live NL Hold'em 2 table SNG. I won! Now I was hooked. I started playing online now for real money. I deposited my $100 to start and entered a small MTT. I placed something like 2nd in one and top 8 in another. My bankroll was an amazing $180! A good start. I proceeded to play NL200 like the in the live casino near me. My bankroll was literally $1 in about 10 days. I vowed to play more solidly and ABC poker and I built my bankroll up to $14, then $60 and as high as $280. Since then (about 2-3 weeks ago) I have mostly played within my bankroll at the NL10 and NL25.

I really like the play of Negreanu, Hansen, etc, so I had been playing fairly loose and aggressive (about 35%/20%/3.00) and built up my bankroll to $280, but I took a couple of beats....actually really bad calls by me. My bankroll went to about $180. I became careful with my play. I changed to only playing about 20%-25% of hands, but staying aggressive as I read in these forums and other good books. Now, I have decreased my variance in sessions, but I also have not had much success.

Now I feel like I am playing much more of a tight agressive and solid game, but I keep losing. What I notice is I get many people playing back at me when I raise and having the flop come out rags, they bet and take the pot when I miss. Also, I am not getting much action at all on my bigger hands when they do hit. I definately think other players can now read my hands much better. I now do not call a raise with suited connectors or other hands in hopes of hitting the big hand. This is because I am not getting sufficient odds (not implied odds).

My quesion is coming....it seems like the players winning on High Stakes Poker and at my B&M casino are the ones playing more marginal hands and knowing when to push the hands. They get more action on their hands and seem to hit the hands that pay off (staights and flushes). I see players winning much more than me playing 35%+ of their hands. They hit more straights, flushes, two pair on ragged boards, etc. It seems like everyone here in these forums is tight (20% hands), but aggressive.

I am confused....I know playing tight is safer, but....frustration is setting in as my tight play is making my bankroll disappear.

Any thoughts?

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

web page

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

i'm tired, so I'll just give you the short version.

online $25NL and High-Stakes Poker you see on TV are two completly different animals. what works in one does not work in the other. Tight-Agressive ABC pokre is the best way to best these low-stakes games.

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

full ring NL- tight aggro
6 max NL- tight aggro OR loose aggro

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

hey mate i hear what ure sayin , this is how it is , buy in the 25nl for half the max buy in and have say an hour or 2 session of play there , the way to win is to play certain hands meaning raising hands dont allways win the hands that are gonna win and make alot of cash is the hands which catch people out , like limpin in to a pot and catching 2pair or calling the min to catch trips or having the right odds to make a draw , u say u are playin tight now and losing maybe you are playing 2many hands there are alot of chasers at nl25 so just adjust and play around 10% of hands and try to be aggressive with the blinds this will pay off and give a sence of confusion from other players , just wait for the monster hands and u will get paid off mate its all about patience then when uve reached about 500 play 50/1 nl easy. 5 rules
1. dont go allin unless u have the nuts low limit players take too many risks to make money u dont need to
2. play at your limit or even halkf the buy in.
dont call any raises unless u have a really strong hand , call min for trips and suites connectors
3. make sure you are playin well keep a clear head and no booze and get plenty rest.
4. limit yourself and stick to it this is by far the hardest thing to do , say right am gonna give myself $25 tonight and if i lose i will come off because to be fair u shudent be losing when u play like this.
stick to this mate and your cash will role in it might seem like hard work and a lot of effort but when your gettin cash in the bamk your laughin
cheers.

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

Give yourslef more options whilst playing a tighter range pre is accomplished easier through multi-tabling!

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

Thanks all. I will take your suggestions and keep plugging away!

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

First of all, you just started playing in January. It takes a while to become a winning player for many reasons. Online poker is completely different from live so it takes a while to adjust to the different style. All the games are gonna play differently (nl50, nl100, nl20, ect...)so have to adjust to the different games style as well. Also, playing 6 max or 9 max also makes a huge difference, 6 max plays a little faster than 9 max.

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

Well I would suggest you play both, always change gears (one of the general poker principle in Brunson's bible).

Also you said people are getting an easier read on you, not winning as much with good hands. Use it to your advantage. Play a hand like you had a good hand and if they keep folding like they do when they read you with a good hand and fold like they do, show your bluff. Thats advertisement. Fold a good hand to someone you know is bluffing and show your cards, you will incite people to bluff you more. etc. Good luck!

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

on high stakes poker everyone antes 1/6 of the big blind. so in an 8 handed game the pots start at $1700 or just less than double what they would be with blinds only. that means correct play is much looser than it would be in the nl games you play.

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

Tournaments and cash games are completely different animals. In cash games you cannot threaten people with their tournament survival. In cash games you cannot bully the short stacks, because they simply move in on you. Also the antes are low, so blind stealing makes less sense. Overall NL cash games are more about trapping than winning with sheer aggression.

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

the more hands u decide to play , the more u have to bluff/steal pots inorder to compensate for ur loose gambling. also u must be very good at getting away from 2nd best hands
us pros do these 2 things the best thats why u can get away with playing many hands. but for a beginner i would recomend playing 25-30% of hands u can increase that when u become seasoned.

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

Don't play NL200 again with only $280 in your bankroll. Your underrolled even for NL25, but whatever. NL25 is very beatable if your a good player. You should be beating it for atleast 8 or 9 PTBB. If your playing FR you need to be a TAG. Good luck and play within your bankroll. By the way, to play NL200 it is recommended that you have a $4000 bankroll (20 buy ins) at least. I waited untill I had $1500 before I moved up to NL50, but then again im very conservative when it comes to bankrolls.

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

Wait a minute. I was playing 30-35% which I thought was high. Then I read this thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=5892078

The max VP$IP is less than 30%. The average is 20%. Now I am confused. Is 30% of hands way too much to play?

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

You know guys I played classic TAGG in the beggining. You don't get payed off on your hands (10max) and I remmber just preflop raising AA and everyone in the table folds my VPIP was only like 25%. Anyways I have no loosened up my game and play six max where all the fish and loose guys play. I play loose with them but have the skills to know when to lay it down. TAgg is boring and steady, loose is fun and profitable if you are a solid player already.

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wait a minute. I was playing 30-35% which I thought was high. Then I read this thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=5892078

The max VP$IP is less than 30%. The average is 20%. Now I am confused. Is 30% of hands way too much to play?

[/ QUOTE ]

there are some flaws here.

most importantly though, why would you use statistics that dont even take win rate into acct (from what i can tell of that post) to judge your play and win rate?

if you are winning alot of money as a 30/20/1 or whatever, go with it. that just means you have above average hand reading skills or just play well for that limit/table etc.

for instance, it could be that while the majority of the winning player sample is 18/11/2 the biggest winners are 30/20/1...would you want to change then? what about if all the 18/11/2 players won the least amounts of money?

what's more important than anything here is how these stats correlate w/ win rate. dont change your game based on avg stats here imo.

although i will say that for a 10 handed game, 35% is very high. what is your win rate?

Barron

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

Well, in a very short time (I started playing online only in the last handful of months), my winrate was 20BB/100 hands. I know, I know...this was a very small sample. I am still learning. I keep reading the forums and taking advice in from more experienced players. I am learning. I think I was playing too many hands, but too few is very boring...and frustrating at times. I think in the long run, my optimal play will be about 30% or slightly higher. I don't hang on to too many hands when playing this many. On the other hand...when I play 20% of my hands and I get a good one, I have a hard time letting go. I have way too few hands to determine things yet.

Thanks all for the great advice. I can't wait to feel like I know enough to give others advice!

BEST ADVICE EVER GIVEN
 

if you want to learn how to destroy NL games and lose friends.. read EVERY Grimstarr post.

ty, g'night.

Re: How do I REALLY win at cash NL. Play Tight or Loose?
 

Get better at poker. Seriously. That's the answer you need to be given. Obsess about theory, statistics and what the right move is. Learn how to weigh and balance different principles.