Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

I don't know about anyone else in this forum, but I am extremely frustrated over this most recent legislation passed by OUR congress. The reasons for this are not just directed at the government however. We as players are as much to blame for this as anyone on Capitol Hill.

By taking a See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil attitude towards online gaming we have allowed the government to make the first move. What is more frustrating then our lack of aggression in doing some type of preemptive action,is our delay in putting together a strong, immediate response that sends a signal that these types of actions by the government will not be tolerated and we will fight against this until changes are made. Reaction has been limited to complaining on forums and everyone trying to figure out how to circumvent the law instead of changing it. People seem to be content with being pushed underground instead of using the power of numbers to try and initiate a meaningful resolution to this.

This lack of response is largely the fault of the PPA however. This organization claims to represent the poker community thru its membership base and government lobbying, but yet how many of the members actually know who the President is or can name a person on the Board of Directors?And who determined how those people were put in that position?

By taking up the interest of the poker players here in the US but not allowing those same people to have any voice in the decision-making process they continue to miss out on a golden opportunity to be the leading force that results in regulation of the online gaming industry. They would like to have a million members but how do they expect this to happen if the only influence members have is to give some money to people that they had no say in being put in that position and no way of knowing how that money is being used.

If you look at any other major lobbying force in this country you will find that they all have the same basic structure set up with local and state chapters designed to perform grassroots campaign to generate funds and increase membership base. Both of which result in strength and influence with members of Congress.

Until a grassroots effort is made to gain membership and allow everyone to participate in the organizations efforts the PPA will continue to fail in making itself a powerful lobbying force in Washington and will remain largely seen and not heard.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

The PPA is not the problem

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

Sending a few players to capitol hill is not a big effort by the PPA. They are part of the blame for this outcome. They need to update their website, too. Perhaps they can take the Monster counter and slap it on the site to show the current membership numbers.

I am a PPA member and I have found their visibility lacking. It is a monumental task to organize the PPA, so I will cut them some slack. Unfortunately, there is no second chance.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

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The PPA is not the problem

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Actually, their PART of the problem and even less of a solution. That's the point. They have all the resources to be an effective advocate for all poker players and yet choose to run themselves more like a corporation and less like an organization.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

Hey at least I got a good bonus out of them for signing up.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

Don't forget that this is a very new organization. They are doing their best. I have actually talked with Mike about starting State chapters in the past. He is very aware that it is needed. Unfortunately with the aggressivness of this legislation, they had to prioritize. They ended up focusing their efforts solely on DC. I'm sure you will see more about grassroots organizations here in the very near future. I have already offered up my services to start one here in Indiana.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

I just posted this on my own thread, but i'll post it here as well. This is an interview Mr. Bolcerek did for MSR:

Hey guys, good interview. Thought I'd share. For those of you who don't have the time to listen, Mr. Bolcerek was basically saying that there are 23 million online poker players in the USA while the PPA is only 120,000 strong. He needs members and he needs donations!!! Pony up the 20 bucks everyone, or you can kiss online poker bye bye.

http://mysportsradio.com/?cat=103

Stop talking as if the PPA isn't doing anything. Mr. Bolcerek is lobbying for us. It's unfortunately fact that lobbyists need money, 120,000 members ain't gonna cut it. Join now!!

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

We really have nobody to blame but ourselves. You can take this board as a perfect example. In the weeks leading up to the passing of the bill, there were maybe 150 browsing this board. The day after the bill passes, there are 1700 people on.

Now, after the bill passed, everyone has an idea of what to do and people are springing into action writing letters, making phone calls, etc.

All those people that responded to threads saying this would never happen and flaming those people who were giving warnings are now in a panic over their lost careers or hobby.

Now isn't the time for action... 3 months ago was the time for action.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

Can anyone tell me why the companies weren't throwing money at this? Didn't they just loose 3 Billion market share ? As a political professional this whole thing just left me puzzled. By the way, everyone was right to be surprised it only happened because of Foley. The Reps were desparate then for something to appease the religious right and get them to come out to vote. Dobson hates gambling, so we were it. Welcome to D.C.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

i signed up with them and never got my free t-shirt

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

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Can anyone tell me why the companies weren't throwing money at this? Didn't they just loose 3 Billion market share ?

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This was and is THE problem. Money talks in D.C., not an organization like the PPA (nothing against them).

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

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Stop talking as if the PPA isn't doing anything. Mr. Bolcerek is lobbying for us. It's unfortunately fact that lobbyists need money, 120,000 members ain't gonna cut it. Join now!!

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But how can they expect people to donate money to a group that doesn't ask their input or give them an opporunity to have a say in how that money is spent..? I GUARANTEE that if they set up local and state chapters to run membership drives they would have 1 million members in 6 - 12 months easily.. if not sooner.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

Do you really thing politicians are going to listen to any organization that is only 120,000 strong? I agree that state chapters are needed. I also agree that we needed these members 3 months ago. THIS BILL WOULD HAVE NEVER PASSED HAD THEY NOT TACKED IT ONTO THE PORT SECURITY ACT THE WAY THEY DID. Obviously it was a combonation of things that led to it's passing.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

Their platform is on their site. You can send them an e-mail and talk to them. I have done it successfully. Michael also sometimes posts on this very forum.

I do agree that State chapters are a must. And from what they told me, they agree. This is a VERY new organization. It will be organizing State chapters. It just needs time and money to get this done.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

PPA is too late. They need to die off so that they aren't watering down the lobbyist pool. I don't want these ineffectual jackasses doing tv interviews and pulling support away from some other group that might actually do something.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

They would be a lot stronger if they didn't require the $20 to be a member. That is what turned me off. Not so much the $20, as the requirement of the dues. They should have asked for donations instead. They would have had a list of at least 1 million people who stood behind what they were saying. I knew they wouldn't get that many people at $20 a pop.

As to why the Poker Sites weren't lobbying. First off they are not US companies. And second it is hard to lobby for a company which is doing something that is legally questionable.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

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PPA is too late. They need to die off so that they aren't watering down the lobbyist pool. I don't want these ineffectual jackasses doing tv interviews and pulling support away from some other group that might actually do something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who do you suggest takes their place. You perhaps?

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

Stop blaming and take responsiblity. Go do some productive lobbying and provide copies of letters, etc you send so we can follow suit. Sitting on your but and expecting others to solve your problems is not wise.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about anyone else in this forum, but I am extremely frustrated over this most recent legislation passed by OUR congress. The reasons for this are not just directed at the government however. We as players are as much to blame for this as anyone on Capitol Hill.

By taking a See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil attitude towards online gaming we have allowed the government to make the first move. What is more frustrating then our lack of aggression in doing some type of preemptive action,is our delay in putting together a strong, immediate response that sends a signal that these types of actions by the government will not be tolerated and we will fight against this until changes are made. Reaction has been limited to complaining on forums and everyone trying to figure out how to circumvent the law instead of changing it. People seem to be content with being pushed underground instead of using the power of numbers to try and initiate a meaningful resolution to this.

This lack of response is largely the fault of the PPA however. This organization claims to represent the poker community thru its membership base and government lobbying, but yet how many of the members actually know who the President is or can name a person on the Board of Directors?And who determined how those people were put in that position?

By taking up the interest of the poker players here in the US but not allowing those same people to have any voice in the decision-making process they continue to miss out on a golden opportunity to be the leading force that results in regulation of the online gaming industry. They would like to have a million members but how do they expect this to happen if the only influence members have is to give some money to people that they had no say in being put in that position and no way of knowing how that money is being used.

If you look at any other major lobbying force in this country you will find that they all have the same basic structure set up with local and state chapters designed to perform grassroots campaign to generate funds and increase membership base. Both of which result in strength and influence with members of Congress.

Until a grassroots effort is made to gain membership and allow everyone to participate in the organizations efforts the PPA will continue to fail in making itself a powerful lobbying force in Washington and will remain largely seen and not heard.

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Maybe if everyone on this forum would stop criticizing them, and stop being so damn cheap they would have a million members.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

To me, help with money and membership are two different issues.

Clearly if the PPA requires additional funding it should be actively requesting assistance from the owners of the largest sites. They are a lot poorer today than last week but logically should if anything be more be willing to invest in good regulation. To me the fault in what has happened lies much less with the PPA and more with the largest sites. Active players were paying them a very healthy amount and more than enough to look after their own interests - and they did not.

As for a membership drive, I think we should all help with that and the idea of state chapters with on the ground motivated teams leading the charge makes a lot of sense to me. It is hard to organize much less operate an organization with hundreds of thousands if not millions of people if it is overly centralized. It is also easier to address a broader spectrum of local issues with less centralized management.

The ironic thing is it appears a lot of great ideas and a sense of activism are being produced by the poker community in reponse to this crisis. I think there is at least a fair chance that poker will be much more of a political force in this country in 1- 2 years than any politican could have ever imagined last week.

The Democrats should take advantage of this opportunityif they have any sense (which historcially they have not).

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

[ QUOTE ]
PPA is too late. They need to die off so that they aren't watering down the lobbyist pool. I don't want these ineffectual jackasses doing tv interviews and pulling support away from some other group that might actually do something.

[/ QUOTE ]

What other group ?

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about anyone else in this forum, but I am extremely frustrated over this most recent legislation passed by OUR congress. The reasons for this are not just directed at the government however. We as players are as much to blame for this as anyone on Capitol Hill.

By taking a See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil attitude towards online gaming we have allowed the government to make the first move. What is more frustrating then our lack of aggression in doing some type of preemptive action,is our delay in putting together a strong, immediate response that sends a signal that these types of actions by the government will not be tolerated and we will fight against this until changes are made. Reaction has been limited to complaining on forums and everyone trying to figure out how to circumvent the law instead of changing it. People seem to be content with being pushed underground instead of using the power of numbers to try and initiate a meaningful resolution to this.

This lack of response is largely the fault of the PPA however. This organization claims to represent the poker community thru its membership base and government lobbying, but yet how many of the members actually know who the President is or can name a person on the Board of Directors?And who determined how those people were put in that position?

By taking up the interest of the poker players here in the US but not allowing those same people to have any voice in the decision-making process they continue to miss out on a golden opportunity to be the leading force that results in regulation of the online gaming industry. They would like to have a million members but how do they expect this to happen if the only influence members have is to give some money to people that they had no say in being put in that position and no way of knowing how that money is being used.

If you look at any other major lobbying force in this country you will find that they all have the same basic structure set up with local and state chapters designed to perform grassroots campaign to generate funds and increase membership base. Both of which result in strength and influence with members of Congress.

Until a grassroots effort is made to gain membership and allow everyone to participate in the organizations efforts the PPA will continue to fail in making itself a powerful lobbying force in Washington and will remain largely seen and not heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if everyone on this forum would stop criticizing them, and stop being so damn cheap they would have a million members.

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Does anyone even know what would happen if they had a million members? As far as I can tell they have never said what they would do once they get to that point.. how will they be set up? Are they going to set up Chapters in every state? What kind of laws are they looking to pass? How will they lobby? All their doing right now is asking us to send money and trust them even though they have yet to be responsible for helping pass a single piece of meaningful legislation...

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

I could not agree more with this post

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

How many of you are members? I ponied up my $20 back in May when the bill was just starting to roll.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

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How many of you are members? I ponied up my $20 back in May when the bill was just starting to roll.

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It doesn't matter... the issue isn't whether your a member or not, it's about why you would want to be a member and what you get out of being a member. Besides the cutsie little bag stuffers they send you what exactly is that $20 getting you?

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

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Besides the cutsie little bag stuffers they send you what exactly is that $20 getting you?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are getting a voice in DC lobbying for poker rights. Until recently, they have been fighting the current bill. Now that it has passed, they are trying to create legislation to carve out a poker exception. What else do you want them to do?

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

Actually I agree about the member charge, that is a highly unusual way of doing business for a group that is looking to push numbers. They would be better off if they just collected email and addresses and they sent people organization and solicitation info. List building is everything.

Foreign companies doing business in the U.S. are legally entitled to lobby the gov't, and to form a PAC. B.A.E. the british defense company's PAC's donated almost $800,000 this year. You do it the way the oil companies fund those groups that say there's no global warming, everbody kicks there funds in overseas and here suddenly it's the and Poker Legislation and Regulation Association.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

I want to hear it from the head of the PPA - here - in a big thread where he responds to everyone's questions until they are all have been answered or attempted an answer. If he can't tell us something for strategic reasons that's fine - but he can at least hint or something.

The fact that this isn't already happening concerns me. Combined with the reservations of Mason et al - is enough to make me very wary of giving them my money.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Besides the cutsie little bag stuffers they send you what exactly is that $20 getting you?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are getting a voice in DC lobbying for poker rights. Until recently, they have been fighting the current bill. Now that it has passed, they are trying to create legislation to carve out a poker exception. What else do you want them to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure they fight.. they call Senators just like we do.. the problem is that when they send someone to capitol hill and they say that they want the voices of their 25,000 members heard it gets drowned out by groups like the NRA with their 3 MILLION members and the AARP with their 5 MILLION members and groups like that. And they admit the same which is why the say the need a million members.. I think they can and should do more to reach out to players at the local levels to bring people in and set up a democratic process where those members have a voice in how the organization conducts its activities..

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

[ QUOTE ]
i signed up with them and never got my free t-shirt

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Re: Time to have our voices heard - Crit icism of the PPA
 

Which is why it must be free. You have no chance of getting to a million members with a 20 dollar charge. I do this for I living, (run federal political campaigns), you need a sign up here to help repeal internet poker ban. Then you use the list to fund raise. Some people will work and not give, some will be low dollar givers, and some people you are wasting asking them for 20 dollars when you should be asking them for 20 thousand.

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

i guess i am going against the flow here but, i look at howard lederer, and to a much greater degree, "jesus" ferguson and ask myself, "would i buy a used car from these guys?" i really wouldn't...............b

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

a serious question here: it has been estimated by very respected posters and experts (i am not one), that the raked sites (roughly 10%) cannot support more than 6-8% of the players being winners. i am not a winner. why should i support the sharks on this and other forums who are beating the drums? and i have no use for the argument that it is the principle of protecting our rights. gambling has not been a right in this country, in the same way that freedom of speech or other basic rights have been construed. here in so cal various jurisdictions have held that gambling is legal, then illegal, then legal again. been going on for my entire life. well, that is my 1/2 cent worth..........b

Re: Time to have our voices heard - Criticism of the PPA
 

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The fact that this isn't already happening concerns me. Combined with the reservations of Mason et al - is enough to make me very wary of giving them my money.

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You would listen to them why? because they fought tooth and nail to stop this bill?


LOL, all of this is kind of ridiculous. I joined the PPA and actually got 5 bucks out of the deal. Again it was a riskless transaction. What are they going to do abscond with our 20 bucks and live the high life in Thailand?

Nate had a post that laid out much of what PPA has and has not done and mentioned their lobbying team. Lobbying teams by the way do not come cheap. They also organzied a National phone campaign which in and of itself was 100x more then almost any organization with a vested interest against this legislation did.

Everybody wants to blame the PPA, a rather new organization and most every poker player never even lifted a finger to stop this nonsense. Maybe, instead of pointing blame we can take some sort of action and get Poker regulated........... nah that would make too much sense.

BTW, I am not saying they did a great job, but all everyone here does is criticize and nitpick. They at least tried. There is ample evidence to support this.