Cold Calling
 

Hi All,

As I undertood it - the definition of cold calling is to simply call a raise preflop, this definition applies even when there have been other cold callers behind you. I.E. MP1 raises, Hijack coldcalls, Hero coldcalls.

Is this definition correct? And we should not be doing this very often at all right?

thanks.

Re: Cold Calling
 

Sounds fine. It's on all streets though, not just preflop. And no, you shouldn't be doing this often preflop. Very rarely, unless you're on a table where 5 other people often cold call a raise.

Re: Cold Calling
 

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As I undertood it - the definition of cold calling is to simply call a raise preflop

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I would add, as long as you do not already have money in the pot.

Re: Cold Calling
 

An easy way to think of cold-calling is calling two bets at the same time. And it doesn't matter what street.

If someone raises preflop and you call - you have cold-called.
If someone raises preflop and 4 people call and you call - you have cold-called.
If someone bets the flop and someone else raises and you call - you have cold-called.
If you limp in preflop, and then someone raises and someone else 3-bets, and you call - you have cold-called.

So you can cold-call in lots of different situations, but it's basically the same thing each time - calling two bets at the same time.

In regards to preflop, no, you shouldn't be cold-calling often. This depends a lot on game conditions though. In a loose-passive game, you'll find yourself cold-calling more often than in a tight-aggressive game.

And you'll find yourself cold-calling more postflop than preflop, as you will often flop draws that you will be getting proper pot odds to call with.

Re: Cold Calling
 

Short & simple (rare for me [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]):

Any time you put in 2 or more bets in a single action and are not raising, you are coldcalling.

As far as preflop goes, I believe SSH says that you should be coldcalling perhaps 1% of the time. That has seemed correct to me over the years.

Re: Cold Calling
 

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As far as preflop goes, I believe SSH says that you should be coldcalling perhaps 1% of the time. That has seemed correct to me over the years.

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Man - I really love my regular game! I'm probably cold calling preflop closer to 5% than 1%! Somewhere around once every 2.5-3 orbits of the table sounds about my average. Not that it SHOULD be that high, but with the action in my regular game, I just can't help it! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Cold Calling
 

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As far as preflop goes, I believe SSH says that you should be coldcalling perhaps 1% of the time. That has seemed correct to me over the years.

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Why is that? I'm rereading Sklansky SSHE now. I was surprised to read the thumbs down on cold calling.

I'm unclear on why this is such a negative.

Is it primarily to fatten the pot?

To drive out those who've yet to act?

To intimidate the original raiser?

Or, as some would claim, that any hand that's good enough to start with should be good enough to raise with?

Re: Cold Calling
 

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Why is that? I'm rereading Sklansky SSHE now. I was surprised to read the thumbs down on cold calling.

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It's primarily to drive out those who've yet to act, intimidate the original raiser, increase your chances of winning the pot, and/or because you believe you have the best hand. 3-betting rather than coldcalling can also make the hand easier for you to play postflop.

Let's look at an example off the top of my head. You're holding 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the CO. It's folded to MP1 who raises, then folded to you. To begin with, there's a very good chance that you're holding the best hand here...MP1 is fairly likely to have overcards to your sevens, and could even be trying a steal with a lower pocket pair. But going deeper, let's say that the button is holding Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. For the sake of simplicity, let's define MP1's hand as A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

In a heads up pot vs AK, you're going to win about 50% of the time if the hands both go do the river...but of course, in limit hold'em where there's not usually an all in, many hands won't go to the river. But anyway, let's just say that you're going to win it 50% of the time (it's actually more like 54%).

However, if you just coldcall then Button is pretty likely to coldcall with his suited QJ behind you, with position--I know I would. If he enters the pot as well, then your odds of winning drop all the way to about 31%. Assuming he will fold his QJs for 3 bets (I would), then 3-betting increases your chances of winning the hand by more than 20%...plus gives you better folding equity postflop against MP1. And it could work even better than that...for example, if Button decided to fold pocket eights after the raise & reraise ahead of him.

Really, the only times I'm coldcalling preflop are when I have a good speculative hand, with position, in a multiway pot. Like the QJs above, or maybe 44 on the button vs an EP raise & 2 coldcallers (I'm playing for set value), or T9s vs 3 limpers & a raise, etc.

Re: Cold Calling
 

I usually cold call KQs, that's about it. I'd like others behind me to cold call as well and make a huge multiway pot on this hand, rather than playing heads-up against a hand that probably dominates me. I believe the other "problematic" hands are AQs and AJs. I usually 3 bet AQs, and AJs depends... Remember if you 3 bet and the others fold, you effectively bought the button. That's a huge advantage.

(but if I only cold call one hand... that's a dead give-away. Might be better of just raising that as well then.)

Re: Cold Calling
 

I had previously posted this some months ago in the Micros.

Ed Miller's 4 DVd set, "Expert Hold' Em", has a DVD, "Advanced Pre-Flop Concepts". In this DVD there is a section called, "The Re-raise or Fold Rule".

If a player raises pf, your best bet, almost always, is to re-raise or fold.

If you feel that your hand is better, on an average of what you feel his raising range is, you should re-raise for value as well as to force the BB out. You do not want the BB to make a profitable call of one bet. BB may even have a better hand than you and two bets will likely force him out.

A raise also allows you to represent a better hand than you actually have.


He lists two exceptions to this rule:

One player has raised and a few others have already CC.

Very loose game, players would most likely all call a raise but not a 3-bet. One person in early position has raised and you have a very strong hand, QQ-AA, and you want some players to follow you in. You do not want to do this against players that will recognize what you are doing. You have to be very selective about players you will do this against. He also says this is rare.

Re: Cold Calling
 

One more thing to think of about cold-calling.

If someone raises preflop, it usually denotes a good hand (let's ignore blind steals and maniacs here for a moment) Let's say that the player to your right raises first in. Now you know that he will only raise the top 20 preflop hands. (ignore for a moment which hands those might be) So he's got one of the top 20 hands here.

What hands do you want to be playing against his range?

Well, you don't want to be playing hand #20, since 19 of his possible 20 hands are better. He's ahead of you 95% of the time. You probably don't want to play hand #15 either, since he's still a huge favourite. So let's say a sound strategy is to only play hands #10 and higher. This means that in the worst case scenario, you are at least 50/50 as to who's got the better hand. Add in the extra money from the blinds, and that's an acceptable strategy.

Now, since this strategy leads you into playing the top 10 hands only, you are all of a sudden playing nothing but really, really good hands. So it's only natural to reraise him instead of cold-calling. You're reraise will force others to either fold hands that may have outdrawn you, or call a huge amount with a hand that is a significant underdog to your top 10 hand. Add in the fact that you have position and gain the advantage of momentum with a reraise, and it only makes sense.

Personally, the only times I'm cold-calling are with speculative hands that will be getting proper implied odds due to a multi-way pot. For example, two players limp, someone raises, and I'm on the Button with 44 - I'm in. Someone raises and 2 people cold-call and I'm in the CO with JTs - I'm in. Someone raises and 5 people cold-call, and I'm on the Button with 65s - I'm in. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (YMMV)

Re: Cold Calling
 

The only time I'll cold-call against unknowns is if I have a decent multiway hand in a big pot.

Sometimes against players whose tendencies you know really well a cold-call can be best; this mostly happens with tight predictable players, or tricky players who will often call your 3bet and c/r the flop, but will usually play honest whenever you "float" them. Talking about when in position of course.

Re: Cold Calling
 

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Sometimes against players whose tendencies you know really well a cold-call can be best; this mostly happens with tight predictable players, or tricky players who will often call your 3bet and c/r the flop, but will usually play honest whenever you "float" them. Talking about when in position of course.

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I have run into a couple pretty good players at the 5/10 level who have sat to my left - and cold called my preflop raises quite a bit. It had puzzled me, but eventually it turned into a lot of fun.

Re: Cold Calling
 

TripleH, I've played with you and you are definitely not the type of person I'm talking about. On the other hand, there is a certain individual whose sn starts with JC that I'll do this to. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Cold Calling
 

First, a clarification: I thought cold calling was defined thusly: When a player calls 2 bets when that same player has not already bet during that particular street.

UTG bets; MP raises. You, the button, 3 bets. You just cold called.

But, if I understand correctly, this next example is different:

UTG bets; MP raises. You, the button, 3 bets. You just cold called. UTG puts in 2 more bets. UTG simply called a Reraise, not cold called a raise. Am I wrong?

SixForty
 

Great post, SixForty, very helpful.

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You're reraise will force others to either fold hands that may have outdrawn you, or call a huge amount with a hand that is a significant underdog to your top 10 hand.

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Did you leave out this one last scenario: That the result of your 3 bet might be to allow a player who has you beat or who believes he has you beat, to cap the betting?

Re: Cold Calling
 

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First, a clarification: I thought cold calling was defined thusly: When a player calls 2 bets when that same player has not already bet during that particular street.

UTG bets; MP raises. You, the button, 3 bets. You just cold called.

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Technically no - when you are raising, you aren't calling, so you can't really be cold-calling. And though it is often thought to be a bad idea to be cold-calling first in, it is much more often a good idea to be 3-betting.

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But, if I understand correctly, this next example is different:

UTG bets; MP raises. You, the button, 3 bets. You just cold called. UTG puts in 2 more bets. UTG simply called a Reraise, not cold called a raise. Am I wrong?

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UTG is technically cold-calling the reraise.

Re: SixForty
 

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Did you leave out this one last scenario: That the result of your 3 bet might be to allow a player who has you beat or who believes he has you beat, to cap the betting?

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Yeah - I didn't mention that, though it is important. The prospect of getting a better hand behind you to fold is great. (Like someone said before, 3-betting a loose raiser with 77 and having a tight player fold 88 behind you is golden)

And 3-betting with AA so someone behind can cap with KK when drawing slim also makes you good money! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: SixForty
 

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And 3-betting with AA so someone behind can cap with KK when drawing slim also makes you good money! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


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I prefer 3-betting with AA so someone behind can cap with AK. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: SixForty
 

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And 3-betting with AA so someone behind can cap with KK when drawing slim also makes you good money! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


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I prefer 3-betting with AA so someone behind can cap with AK. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Yeah, I do too, but they don't give you as much action when the board is all rags! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: SixForty
 

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And 3-betting with AA so someone behind can cap with KK when drawing slim also makes you good money! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


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I prefer 3-betting with AA so someone behind can cap with AK. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Yeah, I do too, but they don't give you as much action when the board is all rags! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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You need to pick your opponents better. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: SixForty
 

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You need to pick your opponents better. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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touché!