Crash course in PLO needed
 

Playing in a rotation game tomorrow, 5/5 blinds, alternating rounds of NLH and PLO. I am a good NLH player and have no idea how to play PLO.

Links? Essential posts / sites? Sorry I know this is a noobish and stupid question. Feel free to berate me. Don't have time to wait for a book to arrive obv.

Thanks,
NT

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

if you're playing deep, play tight/passive till you get the hang of it. Draws are much bigger now, bottom set is bad, etc etc

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

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if you're playing deep, play tight/passive till you get the hang of it. Draws are much bigger now, bottom set is bad, etc etc

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yeah the basic plan is obv to take smoke breaks or nut peddle, especially since i want to protect my stack for the NL. just wondering if there are some good overall guides or resources out there

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

If you are an experienced NL player you should be able to make some simple adjustments and do just fine. One very basic tutorial that is worth reading is Crockpot's PLO material at this page. It is mostly obvious stuff but it might help you get dialed in a little. GL! trip report plz.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

Wait till you see the difference in average pot size, I'll be impressed if you are able to stick to that strategy.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are an experienced NL player you should be able to make some simple adjustments and do just fine. One very basic tutorial that is worth reading is Crockpot's PLO material at this page. It is mostly obvious stuff but it might help you get dialed in a little. GL! trip report plz.

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I thought I was the only one that remembered that page. lol.

yeah the advice there is v solid for your needs here.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

You need to play the nuts, Don't put all you money in when you flop a straight and there is a flush draw. Don't put all your money in with a flush when there is a pair on the board. Each hand of four cards makes 6 possible hands, with 9 players you are against 48 possible hands so you need the nuts or very close to it.

Patience is the key there is no easy method. read the link below it may be helpful.

http://www.bet-the-pot.com/omaha-poi...ms-page62.html

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

Threads like this seem to come up all the time. I don't think there are any good answers. What would you say to someone who asked the same in one of the NL or limit forums?

Anyway, play more in position and try to end up with the nuts a lot, if you're good at poker you'll work it out.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

Omaha is not a bluffing game [for the most part]. Usually, when people are betting big or calling big, they have it. Learn to fold. Pocket aces in the hole are bad unless they include possible flushes/straights.

NL players over value hands and need to learn preflop optimal hand selection. Don't over value trips on the flop, pocket aces or misplay straights versus 2-paired boards or flush potentials. Respect callers who 'fill' after they've call your aggressive play on the flop. Remember in a full game, there are 40 cards in players' hands and 5 community cards to come meaning there are lots of possibilties out there.

Play hard with absolute nuts and make the most of these hands, in position be aggressive with nut draws and know when to fold. If an opponent thinks you're weak if he sees you fold, you will eventually get him to bet hard against you - let this work to your advantage when you have the nuts.

Deciding which hands to enter pots with is perhaps your most important decision. Play too many hands and you'll just waste chips you'll need for aggressive play. Be selective, be aggressive and know when you're beat!

PLO is the best game around. GL and ignore the whiners!

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

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Omaha is not a bluffing game [for the most part].

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If all you ever do is bet when you have it, people learn, and never pay you off. The frequency of bluffing opportunites is much lower than most other games, but bluffing is still an integral part of Omaha. Its still poker after all.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

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If all you ever do is bet when you have it, people learn, and never pay you off. The frequency of bluffing opportunites is much lower than most other games, but bluffing is still an integral part of Omaha. Its still poker after all.

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Rolf's new book has some on this picking up smaller pots when you have a deep stack vs. getting all in with best hand with short stack.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

I contend that there are more bluffing opportunities available in PLO than NLHE.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

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I contend that there are more bluffing opportunities available in PLO than NLHE.

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Interesting, tell me more please.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

Of course, this is true - I shouldn't say never bluff and made it seem inconsequential - this is not true, but I do think bluffing in Omaha should be approached differently. 50% of players seeing the flop online and in Omaha, that spells trouble for bluffing fools who may not appreciate all variables in Omaha.

My point is simply that the amount of bluffing that one can use successfully in NLHE is far greater than in PLO. Am I really that far off here? I usually come out on top against these players, especially in tournaments. I'm way ahead in PLO; it's the PLO8 I am struggling with at 50%.

For someone who wants a crash course, I don't think 'behaving' like a typical NLHE player is a good approach to PLO when you are against players who have a better feel for the game and it's 'bad beats'. Guarding against it is probably a better approach at first, no? Even mostly conservative play during a session in PLO can get you out with a profit.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

I've written and rewritten a reply to this 3 times but I'm not happy with any of my versions. All I can say is that omaha is a game where you can develope better reads on your opponents, where aggression and position is key, and where most flops DON'T miss most opponents whereas the opposite is true in HE.

I'm actually in the process of writing a series of articles on OH. I'm not entirely happy with what I've written and may submit sections of it to you guys for review. Until then, I'll say that from $1/$2 and upwards MOST players can be bluffed in the right spots and this skill is very +EV. I am technically only OK at this game but I average over 11 PTBB at all levels, and estimate that about 3 or 4 of that is down to bluffing.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

I bluff a lot more playing Omaha than Holdem, definitely more successfully. But this might be because my hand reading in hold'em sucks and I tilt while playing it.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

This is my most memorable bluff. It is certainly not my best but UTG+1 is very strong, one of the best players I encountered at ongame. What do you put him on, and in his shoes what would you put me on? On what turns can I realistically continue my bluff?

Poker Room skin
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $5/$5
7 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $495.00
UTG+1: $620.05
Hero: $832.00
CO: $471.50
Button: $1.059.50
SB: $752.00
BB: $400.00

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is MP1 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $20</font>, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($80, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $80</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $200</font>, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($480, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $200</font>, UTG+1 folds.
Uncalled bets: $200 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $480
<font color="#ffffff">Hero shows 6S 4S 7C 9H </font>

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

Bluffs are more fun when you're deep-stacked. Here I'm representing at worst top two pair with the nut flush draw, but more likely a set with NFD.

Poker Room skin
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $5/$5
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $366.50
Hero: $2.119.45
Button: $499.00
SB: $2.469.20
BB: $117.10

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $20</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($60, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $30</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($120, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $40</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $200</font>, SB calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($520, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $375</font>, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: $375 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $520
<font color="#ffffff">Hero shows 3H 8D QD10H </font>

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

Sometimes I am reckless against fishies but still have a money read.

Poker Room skin
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $5/$5
2 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
SB: $242.00
Hero: $318.15

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, Hero checks.
Uncalled bets: $5 returned to .

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($5, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">SB bets $10</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $40</font>, SB calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($85, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $90</font>, SB calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($265, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero is all-in $183.15</font>, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: $183.15 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $265

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

NHs

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

I only play live. There just aren't enough strong players in the games I play to give me that many bluffing opportunites.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, in my last Omaha session, I floped undertrips, UTG bet out pot, MP called, I pushed, UTG folded his OESD, and MP called for 1200 dollars with an OESFD.

UTG always slowplays his big made hands and bets his draws.
MP always calls with draws and raises with made hands.

When am I ever going to bluff this guy?

There are about 2-3 regs in these games I can bluff, and one weak tighty I can push off of everything but the stone cold nuts. I've pushed him off the 2nd and 3rd nuts with nothing at lease 5 times in the last month and he still won't call.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

[ QUOTE ]
I only play live. There just aren't enough strong players in the games I play to give me that many bluffing opportunites.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, in my last Omaha session, I floped undertrips, UTG bet out pot, MP called, I pushed, UTG folded his OESD, and MP called for 1200 dollars with an OESFD.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe he's got a read [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

Sometimes I will chase flushes or straights on paired boards. It's not as bad as some people make out. Obv very dependent on your opponents but you are missing out on some EV if you fold a full wrap with flush draw just because there is a full house possible.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

His read is, I've got a SFD, I can't fold. The point is that I play in a game with players that rarely think past that first level in omaha, so bluffing opportunities are fewer than in holdem, where these players will less often have a hand they can call with, (basically no pair no draw)

wazz: any thinking player has to know I've got a made boat very often here. even when I don't and I only have naked trips you're still a 66/33 dog, how is calling for your whole 200+ bb stack ever a good decision here?

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

Never, but you're missing my point. If the flop comes 3 3 4 with a flush draw and you have 2 5 6 7 and the flush draw, some players will fold to the preflop raiser just because the board pairs. Not only nits.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

Oh, yeah, thats defintely a playable hand in postion, if PFR is raising from EP and I'm on the button, I'm probably re poting in this spot expecting the PFR to have a naked big pair much of the time. The worst I'm doing is my flush outs are dominated.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

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His read is, I've got a SFD, I can't fold. The point is that I play in a game with players that rarely think past that first level in omaha, so bluffing opportunities are fewer than in holdem, where these players will less often have a hand they can call with, (basically no pair no draw)



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I believe you. And thank the lord. But this thought process isn't any different than the players in our hold'em games.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

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When am I ever going to bluff this guy?

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On the river, when both of you miss your draws and you've been doing the betting and he's been calling. Assuming you're both playing deep enough that you can make a meaningfull bet on the river.

The key to bluffing in Omaha is to know your opponents well enough to recognize when no one has the nuts (or a draw if there are cards to come). Real crazies are relatively rare, and so many players are paranoid about the nuts in this game. They know enough to realize that the nuts is often out there, but they don't realize just how common it is for it to not be out there.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

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The key to bluffing in Omaha is to know your opponents well enough to recognize when no one has the nuts (or a draw if there are cards to come). Real crazies are relatively rare, and so many players are paranoid about the nuts in this game. They know enough to realize that the nuts is often out there, but they don't realize just how common it is for it to not be out there.

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This concept is absolutely key to bluffing in omaha. I was at one point 8-tabling $0.05/$0.10 at stars in a bid to rebuild my roll and found that even on autopilot I could pull off successful bluffs now and then, i.e. they were +EV when it was ridiculously obvious they had nothing.

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

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Playing in a rotation game tomorrow, 5/5 blinds, alternating rounds of NLH and PLO.

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bro where is this game?

Re: Crash course in PLO needed
 

[ QUOTE ]
Playing in a rotation game tomorrow, 5/5 blinds, alternating rounds of NLH and PLO. I am a good NLH player and have no idea how to play PLO.

Links? Essential posts / sites? Sorry I know this is a noobish and stupid question. Feel free to berate me. Don't have time to wait for a book to arrive obv.

Thanks,
NT

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I assume you know that you must play 2 cards out of your hand and 3 on the board.

1. You want to play hands that build top set, nut flushes and nut straights. As for the latter, consider where your gaps are. J987 is MUCH weaker than JT97.

2. Straight draw "wraps" can have a lot more outs than flush draws.

3. Position is crucial, especially for weaker, obvious drawing hands like bare flush draws. Up front, stick to top set hands and combo draws (Ah9h8x7x), etc.

4. Raising out of position is suicide for someone new to the game, in part because you broadcast that you have AAxx. Limp and hope to reraise those AAxx hands up front.

5. Except for top set hands like AAxx, KKxx, and maybe QQxx, avoid hands with danglers out of position. Every Omaha hand is 6 holdem hands. If you have KQJ2, for example, 3 of your 6 combinations are K2, Q2 and J2.

6. Bottom two pair, top and bottom pair and bottom set are fools gold if you get any action. Even middle set or top 2 pair can cost you your stack if you aren't careful. Also, beware of straights w/no redraws on a 2 flush board when you get action - he might be freerolling for a flush on you.