$109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

PartyPoker $109 Speed Tournament, Big Blind is t200 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1985)
UTG+1 (t2165)
MP1 (t4316)
CO (t1835)
Button (t5204)
SB (t1240)
Hero (t3255)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, MP1 calls t200, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, Button calls t200, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, Hero checks

Flop: (t700) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">MP1 bets t200</font>, Button calls t200, Hero calls t200

Turn: (t1300) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">MP1 bets t200</font>, Button calls t200, Hero calls t200

River: (t1900) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, <font color="red">Button bets t1725</font>, Hero calls t1725, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>
Comment on all streets.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

lol

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

Looks like a case of the spew. No way I'm calling the turn. Flush and straight draws both make it and you think you are ahead?

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

misplayed on all streets! (except preflop) possibly misplayed twice on the flop! nicely done.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

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Looks like a case of the spew. No way I'm calling the turn. Flush and straight draws both make it and you think you are ahead?

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Ya I'm folding the turn to any non min bet basically. I just hate folding gtting such good odds.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

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misplayed on all streets! (except preflop) possibly misplayed twice on the flop! nicely done.

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my thoughts exactly

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

Two things I have to leave soon, so I will post my thoughts.
1. If someone posted this hand I would be in the same boat as all of you.

However, what hands does villian play like this that are beating me. This is almost never a flush, set, overpair, or KJ+. I don't think he would make a PSB with a Q more, I think he is more likely to try and extract some value with a 1/2-2/3 psb. I'm not particularlly worrid of button calling behind. Maybe I'm crating an argument around my calling, but my reasoning seems fairly sound to me.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

worse than spewage...more like dumpage IMO. can you take us through your (almost definitely too elaborate) thought process? unless you have some serious history with villain i don't like it at all.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

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worse than spewage...more like dumpage IMO. can you take us through your (almost definitely too elaborate) thought process? unless you have some serious history with villain i don't like it at all.

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Read above

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

I like a lead a lot more than a check/call on this flop.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

Well, the call on the turn and the push on the river always confuses me. I mean, why slow play the turn and push the river if you have a flush? But, he could have got just that much stronger with the second Q and now he's super excited so he pushes.

What are you beating that calls the flop, calls the turn and pushes the river? J7? A3? There aren't really any busted draws. On the flop, reasonable draws are T9 and flush draws. They both got there on the turn.

AJ, KJ and QJ all have you beat. JJ, 88 or 33 are not unreasable. Actually make sense if they were scared of the flush on the turn, but filled up on the river.

I just don't think you see a complete bluff here enough to make it profitable.

That being said, did you catch him with As8h?

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

Grunch
Spew

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

Wow, classic "Calling Station"...whats your screenname so I can mark you, and never try to bluff you..lol. Seriously though, considering blinds are already at 200 level, limper from middle to late position usually indicate high-suited connectors, or in somecases medicore unsuited connectors like KJ, QJ, KQ, A 10...you can also throw in some pocket pairs, although above 77+ are usually raising at this blind level. Considering flop, MP1 might of took initiative with many holdings lower than J pockets, and KQ, and A10..or hands that your beating. But buttons call of 200 probably should atleast signify that he has either sometype of draw or has one of the holding of KJ, or QJ. I think button raises here with a set, or any real strong hand since he does not want a draw to get there.

Now, the turn...if we look at the turn we can notice that if button was on flush draw he got there, even a straight draw got there for that matter. Now if he didnt have a draw but had a hand like QJ or KJ, he is still beating us.

If he did have a hand like QJ or KJ villian probably wont want to raise the turn, because of the flush that hit and most wouldnt want to escalade an all-in..even with two pair.

Now on to the river...the Q hitting was a bad card, because if villian has QJ he just hit is full-house...considering hes all-in on river, I would say he either is going all-in with QJ in hopes someone has the flush and to get paid off. Or considering both your checks, he is making a move with KJ as a Bluff attempt, but little does he know he is "bluffing with the best hand"..

Im curious, what did villian have??

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

A lot of good players will occasionally overthink a fairly simple situation, make it more advanced then it really is, and make a poor play as a result. This is yours...

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

Two things,
Villian isn't shoving river. He starts this hand with 5k.
If he bets around 1k on this river. I turbo muck.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

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Now on to the river...the Q hitting was a bad card, because if villian has QJ he just hit is full-house...considering hes all-in on river, I would say he either is going all-in with QJ in hopes someone has the flush and to get paid off. Or considering both your checks, he is making a move with KJ as a Bluff attempt, but little does he know he is "bluffing with the best hand"..

Im curious, what did villian have??

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The Q is a very good card river card. It doesn't improve any worse hands.

Also people saying I played the flop poorly how would you play it?

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

Well, given this situation Q might not be the best card to hit. Yes, it doesnt improve any worse hands..but considering your holding im sure you just want river checked and want a cheap showdown, correct?? If someone has Q and it is checked to them they are going to value-bet it, also even if they dont have Q and it is checked to them they might bluff it, although most likely still with a better hand then you. Like a K J, or maybe AJ.

Also, dont think anything different could of been done on flop considering your holding..If you lead out you are going to get called by the draws, and will be at same place as you were by checking and calling the 200. I guess, if you were going to want to invest allot of money in pot, as you ended up doing in the case of calling flop, turn, and river. The turn wasnt a good card since flush hit the board, but if you were going to take the line of calling turn, and then calling big river bet..which means you didnt believe anyeone had flush, then a good line on turn would of been to lead out yourself for 800. In this case you will probably get some better hands then yours to fold, although QJ and surely the real flush will look you up.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

Ace,
I don't think Jacks are betting a queen river.
Leading this river is really bad. It is a bluff the only worse hands which might fold are AJ and KJ.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

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Ace,
I don't think Jacks are betting a queen river.
Leading this river is really bad. It is a bluff the only worse hands which might fold are AJ and KJ.

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Im not sayin to lead the river, Im sayin to perhaps lead the turn trying to portray that you hit the flush. You considering how you played hand on flop it can easily look like you were on a flush draw and hit it. I think the only hands that should call your lead out turn bet would be two-pair or better hands, or perhaps top pair with nut-flush draw.

Also, your right in that if villian had a J holding like KJ it would be a mistake to bet river when it is checked to him, since he should want to see a showdown himself..especiallly since QQ is on board along with a flush....But, you have to remember poker players do make mistakes and deviate from playing a hand as they logically should..I have seen time and time again villians make these "greedy" river bets...so it is not unheard of for him to turn up something along those lines.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

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Ace,
I don't think Jacks are betting a queen river.
Leading this river is really bad. It is a bluff the only worse hands which might fold are AJ and KJ.

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Im not sayin to lead the river, Im sayin to perhaps lead the turn trying to portray that you hit the flush. You considering how you played hand on flop it can easily look like you were on a flush draw and hit it. I think the only hands that should call your lead out turn bet would be two-pair or better hands, or perhaps top pair with nut-flush draw.


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The problem is I'm representing a hand which my opponents could fairly easily have.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

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Im curious, what did villian have??

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Ac5d
Either I pwn or am a huge luckbox.

Re: $109 Spew or Expert Call?
 

just a question...
if you lead the flop, then you have to check-fold the turn, right?