The Bible
 

I found this quote by one of my former engineering professors. Just thought I would post it here to see what kind of reaction it gets.

Well, it's my honest opinion, that be you Christian, Atheist or just about any other persuasion, you're really not well educated unless you've read the Bible. Cover to cover. Not because I think it would convert people, but because our entire way of life in the western world is based upon it and cannot truly be understood without reading the reference upon which it is built. Plus, it's better than any mystery novel I ever read. I love Science Fiction, and Engineering texts, but they really don't hold a candle to the writing skills and thrills and chills of the Bible. I got about half way through the old testament and couldn't help but root for the good guys, and wonder how they could be so foolish as to do some of the things they did, against strict orders, and with such obvious consequences. And how the old testament rituals that even the Patriarchs questioned were such obvious precursors to the new testament, which at that time they couldn't see. Fascinating correlations.

So my first vote would be a leisurely stroll through that book which your ancestors held sacred, for which they worked, and fought, and died, and found hope, and peace. A book that you wouldn't dare read in public in half the world because they would kill you on the spot. What a privilege to be able to study it unmolested. A book that half your professors would consider you an idiot to take seriously - but since half of your professors are idiots, that's understandable. The most widely purchased, published, quoted, read, longest running best seller on the face of the earth - unthinkable that a person with a degree in any field would consider themselves educated without having read it.

Re: The Bible
 

It would be more appropriate on book review site?

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He seemed just mildy retarded until this part

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A book that half your professors would consider you an idiot to take seriously - but since half of your professors are idiots, that's understandable.

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and I would say that, no, unless you're particular field of study has something to do with the Bible or religion, it's not extrememly important to read the Bible.

just because over a billion Muslims have been "duped" by the Quran, does that mean that everyone should read that cover to cover as well?

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Reminds me not to look to engineering profs for book reviews.
Still, he's certainly entitled to his taste in reading. I would have preferred that he got his historical and political facts correct, factual inaccuracy is a bit scary in a engineering prof.

luckyme

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just because over a billion Muslims have been "duped" by the Quran, does that mean that everyone should read that cover to cover as well?


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I have not read the Quran. But I have a friend whose opinion I value. He's read the Koran and says its quite a beautiful book.

I've read quite a bit of the Bible throughout my life and it is a clunky book with a lot of filler.

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A book that half your professors would consider you an idiot to take seriously - but since half of your professors are idiots, that's understandable.

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Of course, the idiots are the OTHER half... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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you're really not well educated unless you've read the Bible. Cover to cover. Not because I think it would convert people, but because our entire way of life in the western world is based upon it

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Wasn't our western way of life founded on the OPPOSITION to theocracy?

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Wasn't our western way of life founded on the
OPPOSITION to theocracy?

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Only Nixon could go to China.

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you're really not well educated unless you've read the Bible. Cover to cover. Not because I think it would convert people, but because our entire way of life in the western world is based upon it

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Wasn't our western way of life founded on the OPPOSITION to theocracy?

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What does that have to do with reading the Bible?

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I'm an English major and athiest, and I approve this message.

However, because almost every Western author until about a hundred years ago crammed a ton of biblical references into their work, doesn't mean that it validates the Bible as true, which is what I'm sure your point is in posting this.

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you're really not well educated unless you've read the Bible. Cover to cover. Not because I think it would convert people, but because our entire way of life in the western world is based upon it

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Wasn't our western way of life founded on the OPPOSITION to theocracy?

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No.

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I'm an English major and athiest, and I approve this message.

However, because almost every Western author until about a hundred years ago crammed a ton of biblical references into their work, doesn't mean that it validates the Bible as true, which is what I'm sure your point is in posting this.

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I do believe the Bible is true, but that wasn't my point in posting this.

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I agree that any rounding of education cannot be achieved without reading the bible and the koran. I would suggest that this be done very critically. It will become quickly apparent that the bible (the koran less so) is not a very coherent of consistent work and is full of contradictions and inplausibilities. The most important conclusion that one will come to, is that it is a monstrosity, to represent either of those books as moral guidance, in any way. What more, it will make one wonder about the mental gymnastics required of the believers to continue those claims. It does highlight a far bigger problem to realise that such a large portion of humanity is capable to be in such denial, or under the influence of delusions, when the word is there for all to see!

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It's an important work of literature. One of many.

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I basically agree. It's hard to claim you are "well read" or "well educated" in our culture if you haven't read the Bible. Simply depends on your reference points though. There's nothing particularly inherently great about being considered well read or well educated in our culture anyway. Read it if you're interested, otherwise don't. As someone above mentioned there is as much wisdom to be gained in countless other works of literature or mythology.

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you're really not well educated unless you've read the Bible. Cover to cover. Not because I think it would convert people, but because our entire way of life in the western world is based upon it

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Wasn't our western way of life founded on the OPPOSITION to theocracy?

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No.

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We were founded on the opposition of the state influencing the church, not the church influencing the state.

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I think the sooner we all stop reading the bible, the fewer generations it will take before people WON'T have to read such a ridiculous book to be considered well-read. Do your offspring a favor and put that thing away. Then forget everything it said. Ignore the next person that speaks to you about it as you would an insane homeless person on the side of the road. I'm not saying burn all the churches, just leave the past to the past, the way we did with greek, norse, and egyptian mythology.

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I basically agree. It's hard to claim you are "well read" or "well educated" in our culture if you haven't read the Bible. Simply depends on your reference points though. There's nothing particularly inherently great about being considered well read or well educated in our culture anyway. Read it if you're interested, otherwise don't. As someone above mentioned there is as much wisdom to be gained in countless other works of literature or mythology.

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Pretty much what I think. I eat peanut butter out of jars with forks, too. Tastes just as good.

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I basically disagree. The bible is so widespread and absorvbed into western culture that even without reading it i have been exposed to largeportions of it throughout my life. Many of the storis of the Old and New testament i am familier with from various outlets from Pat robertson on TV to CS Lewis' fiction works, and simply reading the bible wouldn't signifigantly enhance that experience. Not only that if i wish to understand a particular aspect that is brough up in a debate i can walk down the street to a temple or church and find someone well educated whoi s willing (eager even) to discuss thier interpretation of that section.

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Well, a lot of Christian mythology (sorry, txag) is pretty well entrenched in our culture. That I can think of most of the biblical tales and relate them to an unknowing audience well enough, despite not having a church-going family or reading the bible.

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I've read it, discussed, referenced it and thought about it. As an atheist and a future scientist who enjoys discussions about stuff that is 'larger than life' (whatever that means for an atheist anyway) I think it is important to know the big religions well.

One can easily pick out the ones who hasn't read it, hasn't tried to understand it or have prejudices against it in any debate regarding christianity.

I think it is difficult to take a man seriously in a debate regarding fundamentals in christianity if he hasn't read the bible.

And the non-readers are just as many on the religious side as they are on the non-believer side in the discussions, so this isn't an argument one could in any way use to 'support' different sides in such a discussion.

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If I was going to read the Bible, I'd have to read the Quran, then probably the Talmud. It's just a lot of reading material to do, and, well, very little of my personal outlook would change, having developed into an adult in a mainly Christian democracy.

<shrugs> You do have a point though, and at least in my personal life, I challenge the religious people I do know to validate their beliefs without using their source material, because if they can't... That doesn't necessarily say a lot to me. I don't attack their faith, because I consider that inviolate. If a person believes, that's always cool.

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It's an important work of literature. One of many.

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Its also very funny in parts.

That tower of Babel story is python-esque outright silliness.

And I love the part where Moses disappears for a while to his tent on the other side of the campsite, and noone else is allowed to go in there or they will incur God'd wrath, and noone is allowed to see inside the tent or see what he does in there, but then he comes back with stories of speaking to God and burning bushes and the like.

Guess who pitched his tent over the one patch of shrooms on that campsite [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Either way I recommend reading it because it builds an interesting psychological picture of the believers, and its interesting because a lot of the time a critical reader can see how or why the stories would be written or spun that way. It has interesting relationships to fields of advertising or politics in which creating the right story can manipulate large numbers of people.

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I wouldn't claim to be a biblical scholar, but I did go to Catholic school, so I've had plenty of exposure to it. It's like a collection of short stories, some better than others, some so painfully boring, I can't get through them.

I think it's like Hamlet. A very important work, which contains things that you encounter in everyday life, but how much does it really matter that "Brevity is the soul of wit" comes from Hamlet and not the Bible. The argument that you "can't be an educated person" without reading the Bible doesn't ring true to me, unless you put all of the great works of western literature on that list.

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We were founded on the opposition of the state influencing the church, not the church influencing the state.

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It has to go both ways. If one religious denomination influences the government more than others, the net effect is that the government is exerting control over those who observe other religions.

While one's own religious persuasion can certainly inform one's political views (and there is nothing wrong with that), the churches themselves should stay out of politics.

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We were founded on the opposition of the state influencing the church, not the church influencing the state.

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It has to go both ways. If one religious denomination influences the government more than others, the net effect is that the government is exerting control over those who observe other religions.

While one's own religious persuasion can certainly inform one's political views (and there is nothing wrong with that), the churches themselves should stay out of politics.

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That's your opinion, but I'm speaking of history:

By THE PRESIDENT

OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

A PROCLAMATION

Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me “to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:”

Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; —for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; —for the great degree of tranquillity, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; —for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted; —for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; —and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations, and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; —to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; —to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; —to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shown kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; —to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; —and, generally, to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best.

GIVEN under my Hand, at the city of New York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine.

G. WASHINGTON

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I think it is difficult to take a man seriously in a debate regarding fundamentals in christianity if he hasn't read the bible.
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People do this in regular life? Jeez- i haven't had a debate about the fundementals of christianity in years, and reading the bible once or twice certainly wouldn't inform me well enough of the subject to do so.
Without actually reading the bible i have a vague to good idea of its age, the main characters, many of the stories, some of the moral lessons, and can pick up allusions to it in other works. The bible is pretty unique in this way.

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ZOMG!!! A PROFESSOR validated your religous beliefs. That's proof enough for me.

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I think it is difficult to take a man seriously in a debate regarding fundamentals in christianity if he hasn't read the bible.

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You realize that people practiced Christianity for centuries without having actually touched a Bible, right?

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I think it is difficult to take a man seriously in a debate regarding fundamentals in christianity if he hasn't read the bible.

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You realize that people practiced Christianity for centuries without having actually touched a Bible, right?

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I don't get how this question relates to my post.Discussion of different practices of religion is very different from discussing religion itself. In the same manner as discussing law will be very different from discussing criminals/abiders.

My post allready said that I think lack of bible knowledge is prevalent amongst both religious and non-religious debatants.

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I don't get how this question relates to my post.Discussion of different practices of religion is very different from discussing religion itself. In the same manner as discussing law will be very different from discussing criminals/abiders.

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The point is that there is way, way, way more to Christianity than just the Bible. Modern American (and Global Southern) biblical fundamentalism aside, just knowing what the Bible says is not the be all and end all. In fact, you can know quite a bit about Christianity without knowing your way around a Bible--certainly more than someone whose entire knowledge of Christianity comes solely from studying the Bible.

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I would have to agree on that Christianity is certainly more than the bible, there is no disputing this. In some ways I guess this is related to my point, that alot of people, both religious and non-religious hold arguments which display a very severe lack of biblical knowledge, which certainly doesn't help any 'discussion' along at all. Actually biased belief on 'what the bible is' is probably one of the biggest causes of heated unrest between christian and non-christian groups.

As an atheist I have been in several discussions about religion with many religious people, and mostly that is very interesting. But it gets exceptionally tedious if you happen to meet a religious individual with no true knowledge of his own belief. Just as I am sure it gets tedious for a religious man to argue with a non-believer someone who has very little knowledge about his religion.