My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

My religion forbids games of chance (where there is no skill involved) to be played for money as do nmost conservative faiths.

I would like to know if Limit poker is a game of skill or chance. I really want to play but this is the only issue that is stopping me from doing so.

Please do not say obvious things like, if you play 1 hand, then yes chance dominates the skill factor and if you play 10000, vice versa.

Could someone informed in this area comment please. It would really help me out and decide once and for all to play or not.

Does skill truly determine the FINAL outcome of this game?

Thanks.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

There are lots of debates about this, but the short answer is that YES skill does generally truly determine the final outcome.

To help you think about your problem, would your religion forbid you from running an internet start-up? Or investing in the stock market? Every investment is a gamble to some degree, even if you think it is generally a money-maker.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

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My religion forbids games of chance (where there is no skill involved) to be played for money as do nmost conservative faiths.


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It's both. If your religion forbids games of chance, period, then it's forbidden. If it forbids games of chance unless there is skill involved, then poker should technically be allowed.

However, religion is not always logical, and if you really care about it you'd be better off asking a priest (rabbi, ..., whatever) or some kind of religious scholar.

If you'd rather not ask a person like that, the best option is probably to tell us what religion it is. There are bound to be people on a forum as big as this one that know the rules for at least the bigger religions.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

I have asked a scholar and am waiting for a reply. I am Muslim.

That's exactly what I have thought. Business and most sports have an element of chance attached to them. For e.g Pool. If you enter a tournament for a fee with the winner receiving a prize, and every entrant was as skilled as each other, what would happen? Wouldn't they pretty much win the same amount of games? And if they played the tournament 100 times over, the only clear winner would be the tournament organizer.

The key is to find players of a lesser skill in your game or field. That is how you win any game. Am I correct?

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

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if you play 1 hand, then yes chance dominates the skill factor and if you play 10000, vice versa.


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Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

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Please do not say obvious things like, if you play 1 hand, then yes chance dominates the skill factor and if you play 10000, vice versa.


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if you play 1 hand, then yes chance dominates the skill factor and if you play 10000, vice versa.


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Should I have said Christian? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

Chance determines what cards are dealt out but you determine what you do with them based on you skill level. Overing the long run, a skilled player will win while a lesser skilled or unskilled player will lose. That being said, no amount of skill in the world will can help you win every hand. Sometimes you are just gonna lose and the best you can do is minimize your losses which does take skill.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

troll

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

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Please do not say obvious things like, if you play 1 hand, then yes chance dominates the skill factor and if you play 10000, vice versa.


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you answered your own question. so why are you posting this, if poker is "obviously" skill in the long run?

think before you post please

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

If you've never played poker before then you are very likely to lose anyway.

Interesting to note that there is a CHANCE that you could win in the short-term...but that would make it gambling and you shouldn't play.
But in the long-term it is almost a cinch that you will lose (unless you study the game) in which case it isn't really gambling as much, it is just 'donating' which means that it is okay for you to play.


But this same argument could be made for any number of other non-skill gambling games such as roulette and slots.
If you play long enough then maybe it is no longer gambling, it's just LOSING.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

p.s. god isnt real

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

Poker is a game of skill, the end.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

It is interesting to study where this religion and game of chance conflict comes from. In ancient times, the explanation for anything that occurred that the cause couldn't be easily observed was to credit God.

Why did the volcano erupt? God.
Why does the sun rise and set? God.
What made the dice come up seven twice in a row? God.

Of course, since people playing games of chance were usually beaten by those smarter people running the game, the blame of why the cards or dice fell the way they did was not placed on God, because of the generally bad outcome. Games of chance must be the work of the Devil!!!

And so, card playing and dice rolling and spinning the big wheel was associated with evil. Religions didn't want people playing around with things that the Devil was invovled in. Finally a guy named Pascal came along and developed the math called PROBABILITY to explain this former work of the devil -- Chance, variance, probability could be explained and shown to conform to mathematical principles, not subject to the whims of mythical beings.

So now we know that volcanos erupt because of the building pressure of the magna below. And the sun rises and sets because of a round earth spinning, and the dice and cards follow the rules of probability.

God has much more important work to do, like making sure homosexuals don't get married.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

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God has much more important work to do, like making sure homosexuals don't get married and making sure that IED's find their mark.

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fyp

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

I really dont see how this hasnt been moved to SMP yet

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

What religion forbids games of chance? Christianity doesn't if that's what you are talking about.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

Oh i just saw you were a Muslim. Oops. And Pascal was a Christian, wasn't he? But good point.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

This is a question for your pastor. If a certain sect of Christianity (or any other religion) forbids a certain thing, the scholar in that area would be best qualified to tell you if that sect considers it off limits or not. That doesn't gaurantee God is in agreement but at least you won't have violated the beliefs to which you profess to abide.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

Poker has an element of chance in it. Dancing has an element of sex to it, according to some religions. I'll bet you will not be allowed to play according to your religious advisor. Play it safe and don't play.

Poker IS a game of skill, but it's also true that the more skilled sports bettors can do a lot better than the idiot sports bettors. For this and other reasons it is likely the Muslim theology will disavow your notions to play poker.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

quit religion, play poker. problem solved

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

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Does skill truly determine the FINAL outcome of this game?

Thanks.

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No it doesn't, skill influences the final outcome. Talk to a religious councillor that you trust. Be open about your desire to play, but don't be surprised if he tells you it's forbidden.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

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What religion forbids games of chance? Christianity doesn't if that's what you are talking about.

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<cough cough> Mormonism <cough cough>

But, even if you don't consider them Christian(which I'm not sure that I do), some denominations aren't too wild about gambling, either. (try growing up Southern Baptist, then explaining that poker is one of your chief avocations to any of your parents' friends).

To the OP, I think that consulting a spiritual adviser could help, but he's probably going to give you the answer that you expect. What you're describing is the gambling equivalent of retaining your technical virginity until marriage, but doing everything except intercourse in the meantime. Trust me, it ain't no way to live. Decide for yourself what you believe, and go forward. After all, it's your faith, right? But...don't try to play lawyerball with your sacred texts.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

Quit poker, go back to passing out bibles door to door. No guilt, right? Problem solved.

You can't play good poker if you feel guilty about it anyway.

Just stay away from my door, please. I'm busy playing poker.

Doc [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

Poker is a game of skill more then anything.
but you cannot get around the fact that chance and luck play a part in it.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

change religion preflop.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

"My religion forbids gambling or games of chance."

sucks to be you.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

It is gambling, and even with skill you can still lose.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

If your religion forbids games of chance, then I don't think you should be playing poker. I doubt the intent of your religious texts was to engage in an argument regarding how much of poker is skill and how much is luck. I think you are simply attempting to rationalize something you want to do, but which you know is forbidden.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

You can always stick with chess...

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

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My religion forbids games of chance

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http://www.vikdavid.com/blog/pics/nelson-haha.gif

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

Typical Right wing religious nut who is looking for an excuse to sin. Take most regious people and they will scarifice there beliefs when they can make money.

Ask your minister or priest not us

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

theres no such thing as god

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

[ QUOTE ]
My religion forbids games of chance (where there is no skill involved) to be played for money as do nmost conservative faiths.

I would like to know if Limit poker is a game of skill or chance. I really want to play but this is the only issue that is stopping me from doing so.

Please do not say obvious things like, if you play 1 hand, then yes chance dominates the skill factor and if you play 10000, vice versa.

Could someone informed in this area comment please. It would really help me out and decide once and for all to play or not.

Does skill truly determine the FINAL outcome of this game?

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

The outcome of every single hand is determined by luck. Over the long run the good cards and the bard cards should even out, at least in theory (if not you are getting cheated). The skill is to make the most out of your good hands and lose the least with your bad hands. People with the biggest overlay (> rake) are called winning players. All I can say.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

Almost any activity is related with luck or chances, at the end the skills or not luck helps the outcome of any activity whether is playing poker or chess or football, lady luck is always present. Make a bad move in chess and luck will help you if your oponent didn't notice it. Get a ball back from a fumble after a quaterback gives an interception. You might say its skill, I think luck has a lot to do. At the end, religion or not, do what you feel will make you happy. If you want to, you can try with fake money and try whether you find it skills or luck related. My advice, have fun and enjoy poker as much as you can, whether it is allowed or not, it is what you do with poker, not what poker does to you.

Either case, the bests of lucks in anything you do.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

Yes, just because there is skill involved doesn't mean it is not gambling also.

When two golfers decide to play for $10,000 a hole I think most would consider that to be 'gambling' even though there is clearly skill involved.

And luck is still a factor as well (catch a lucky bounce, the wind blows the right away at exactly the right time, whatever).


I'm comfortable with the fact that the game I play for a living has a lot of luck involved over and over again.
Because I am comfortable that even with my mediocre skill and discipline I can still eek out a profit from it in the long-run.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

If it is true that there is a GOD,

and it is true that man has free will,

then GOD is the biggest gambler in the universe.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

'Please do not say obvious things like, if you play 1 hand, then yes chance dominates the skill factor and if you play 10000, vice versa.'

Unfortunately this is the only correct answer.
I know you religious types like to see the world in black and white terms, but most of life is shades of grey and poker is no different..the answer is that in cash ring games the luck factor decreases as you play more hands.. over 10 hands I stand a decent chance of being up against Phil Ivey - over 100,000 I am more likely to get killed by a stingray (and I don't swim)

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

My country forbids gambling or games of chance.* [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

* Except for gambling offered by industries that have political connections.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

Start with freerolls and go from there...their is no risk involved hence no gambling.

Re: My religion forbids gambling or games of chance.
 

I don't know about Islam. Viewpoints within Christianity are mixed. (BTW, I have an M.Div from a Christian seminary, but i am a poker player and hold many different opinions than most Christians.) Just fyi, the Bible never forbids gambling. Basically, all it says is to be responsible with your money, and you can be a poker player and be responsible with money.