HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

Now that season 2 has finished airing I've been thinking about what we saw and who the big winners and losers were and just as important for an ongoing TV series with repeating characters, who came across better or worse to the TV audience.

Big Money Winners:
Gus
Phil

Big Money Losers:
Daniel
Mike

Did they win, lose or draw?:
Eli (probably down)
Jen (up)
Ted (can't recall)
John J (up a little)
Eric L (up a little)
Antonio (up? How much?)
Doyle (can't recall)
Todd (down. how much?)
Sam F (down)
Zeidman, Booth, Chamenara, and the other one (who knows?)
David G (who cares?)
Grinder (can't recall)
Daniel A (same as above)
Mihn (same as above)
Barry (same as above)

Who came off better for the TV audience:

Eric played well and had enough aggressiveness to show that he can play at this level but he still sometimes had that "deer in the headlights" look. Overall I think he made a good impression.

Jen Harmon showed that she has the game and mind set to play all the time at these levels (and indeed she does so). A good mix of aggressive playing.

Antonio played well and showed that he can read others very well but he is clearly playing out of his comfort level. Still, he came across well on TV.

Barry played good solid poker and was willing to tighten up his game to accommodate the looseness of the others in order to maximize his pay-outs. It may not make for exciting TV except when he does end up getting paid. He also had some funny stories and seemed generally more relaxed this season.

Ted Forrest came off as a guy that just knows how to play, period. A guy you want to stay away from and one with a killer poker attitude. The one thing that may have brought his likability down was the last 2 episodes where he seemed out of sorts, like he wasn't feeling well. He also seemed not to like having David Grey to his right talking to him the whole time. I also get the impression that Ted prefers to sit at the table ends rather than in the middle so he doesn't have to swivel his head around as much. He seemed to be doing a lot of squinting the last 2 shows. That's just my 2 cents from watching on TV.

Mihn came across quite well in his short appearances. He really turned his game up a notch.

Who came off worse for the TV audience:

This may be a tie between Daniel N, Mike the Mouth and Eli. Daniel just wore on people and was obviously titling at the end of the season (remember that this was actually just 3 days of poker). People soon forgot how many times he lost after flopping the nuts due to his seriously deluded plays later on.

Eli. What a tool. First he takes forever to do anything early in the season and then he becomes the human calling station. Some of his plays were incredibly dumb and he came across as a fish.

Mike. Ooh la la. What would a season of HSP be without a foil? Last season it was Phil Hellmuth and this time Mike provided the TV audience with a Shakespearean play throughout his time on HSP II. Hubris may soon be defined as "see Mike Matasow". And the fact that the other players actually paid him to stay and then raped him for all his money showed to everyone how easy it is to set him up for failure.

David Grey. Seriously, what was he doing on this show? He may have outdone Bob Stupak as the most annoying guy on the table because Stupak usually wasn't even sitting at the table.

Semi Annoying:

Phil Laak. Can this guy get a sentence out of his mouth that makes sense? He was a major luckbox or else someone donked off his chips to him (he should be giving Mike 25% of that pot as a thank you) and had a C list celeb/GF looking over his shoulder whenever he got involved in large pots like she was staking him.

My hope is that for season III the producers pay more attention to the table makeup, especially at the beginning. At the beginning of the season this year there were too many tourney players playing out of their range and it took a while for the game to settle in. It would be a better show if they started with the seasoned high stakes pro's sprinkled with some newer faces and then have others join later on. Also, at least 1 less player at the table so that the game opens up a bit more.

Finally, cut out the props. They do nothing for the TV audience and distract from the game. I'd much rather hear the players discussing their hands or telling stories.

Oh yeah, the shots of the waitresses were great. Keep them coming. Maybe we can have a few lap dancers next season? That would be the icing.

I can't wait for season III.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

IMO the following players came off very well in terms of their play and attitude: Doyle, Antonio, Phil L, Erik L, Barry G

These players seemed a little outclassed (if not exactly weak): Zeidman, Sheikhan, Grey, Elezra, Todd, Chamanara, Juanda, Matusow

Of course, who knows, given the editing? Juanda might have played brilliantly, we just didn't get to see much of him, and Grey seemed to be cold-decked. Zeidman, Todd, and Elezra all made some poor plays to my eyes, but then don't we all from time to time? I actually thought Elezra and Matusow played fairly well until they got tired/bored and started tilting off chips.

I would like to see the following done to improve the show:

- Cut down on the unknowns. Zeidman, Chamanara, Nassri, etc, are nice enough guys with plenty of money I'm sure, but they're not really that interesting to watch. If the game needs some wealthy amateurs to attract the pros (and I doubt it does) stick with guys like Jerry Buss who at least have some claim to fame outside poker.

- Elimination of props

- Pre-selected tables and rotation. Talkative, charismatic players should be spaced out among the episodes, so the show flows more evenly. This season seemed to start out very lively then got rather subdued as players like Matusow, Farha, Sheiky, Laak, etc, left. Ended on a bit of a whimper. Also, there needs to be some sort of forced rotation so we don't have to watch the same players every week. I don't mind watching Negreneau play but he was in every episode and nearly every hand. High Stakes feels like the Daniel N show sometimes.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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IMO the following players came off very well in terms of their play and attitude: Doyle, Antonio, Phil L, Erik L, Barry G

These players seemed a little outclassed (if not exactly weak): Zeidman, Sheikhan, Grey, Elezra, Todd, Chamanara, Juanda, Matusow


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Gained new respect for Eric L and Phil L watching HSP. Both did better than I expected among that group

John Juanda outclassed/weak? No sir

Phil H and Mike M seemed the most "outclassed" other than the amateurs. Though wtf was Daniel doing with his relentless payoff wizardry..

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

It's funny how guys I thought were total douchebags like Antonio and Phil L. turned out to be not only way better poker players than I thought, but some of the cooler guys on poker tv.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

I rather see play like bg than dn, what a joke. Respect to barry and phil L. Last episodes were a joke

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

As bad as he played wasn't Eli actually up? Won some huge hands.
And with Antonio wasn't it the reverse? Played well but was very unlucky.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

my own points...i don't think juanda was outclassed at all, i just don't think we got to see enough of him...laak actually played a bit better than i would have thought..i can't imagine elezra was up at the end of the season...antonio did seem to have a lot of bad luck, but didn't play all that bad...

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

prahlad and i are both trying to get on season 3. it doesn't look good for either of us b/c apparently invites went out last friday --- i didn't get one and i think i would have heard if he got one. --ba

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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prahlad and i are both trying to get on season 3. it doesn't look good for either of us b/c apparently invites went out last friday --- i didn't get one and i think i would have heard if he got one. --ba

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That sucks, we'd love to see some online guys tear up that game.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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prahlad and i are both trying to get on season 3. it doesn't look good for either of us b/c apparently invites went out last friday --- i didn't get one and i think i would have heard if he got one. --ba

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Hey Brandon, I dont know if you know me but shoot me a private email. Some stuff you might be interested in.
Randy

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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...we'd love to see some online guys tear up that game.

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Careful with the "we". Not all of us are online pro fanboys. I like seeing big money live players, as it is a true glimpse into the real world of live high stakes cash game poker, and not just a pedestal for live/online tournament players that most other televised poker seems to be.

I just hope they keep the aesthetic class in the show, by continuing to bar online poker site clothing.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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prahlad and i are both trying to get on season 3. it doesn't look good for either of us b/c apparently invites went out last friday --- i didn't get one and i think i would have heard if he got one. --ba

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The poker would be cool, but the fight would be better. I guess neither of you ended up "playing for rolls."

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

Eli was down tons, there was a reason he was on tilt. I'm sure he was down at least 2-300K.

Zeidman was hilarious, and by hilarious I mean he was both a huge chump and shocking holdem player.

Grinder won a bit at the start playing nit styles, but seemed very scared.

Negreanu has NO self control.

Forrest looked like a paedophile in S2 but still played well obviously.

I would like to see them ditch some of the big-game hanger ons and get some less conservative players in. Most of the "mixing it up" in S2 was just Elezra and Negreanu playing terribly.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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It's funny how guys I thought were total douchebags like Antonio and Phil L. turned out to be not only way better poker players than I thought, but some of the cooler guys on poker tv.

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Yeah, their antics during tournaments really turned me off, and I used to think Antonio was a donk. But they seem to act different with a table full of pros. Antonio played really well and would have won big if he didn't get coolered a couple times. I have a different opinion of both of these guys after HSP.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

I give Antonio credit especially for the way he played Doyle. He knew Doyle was likely unfamiliar with his game, and would probably mark him as timid-predictable, which could make Doyle bluffable. Then he followed through with a couple nicely timed moves against him.

Probably won't be able to do it again too often, but it was still good poker.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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prahlad and i are both trying to get on season 3. it doesn't look good for either of us b/c apparently invites went out last friday --- i didn't get one and i think i would have heard if he got one. --ba

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That sucks, we'd love to see some online guys tear up that game.

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I would love to see Patrik Antonius in HS3!

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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It's funny how guys I thought were total douchebags like Antonio and Phil L. turned out to be not only way better poker players than I thought, but some of the cooler guys on poker tv.

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I was suprised too.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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It's funny how guys I thought were total douchebags like Antonio and Phil L. turned out to be not only way better poker players than I thought, but some of the cooler guys on poker tv.

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Yeah, their antics during tournaments really turned me off, and I used to think Antonio was a donk. But they seem to act different with a table full of pros. Antonio played really well and would have won big if he didn't get coolered a couple times. I have a different opinion of both of these guys after HSP.

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my thoughts exactly...

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

DN had some bad rolls and tilted. Eli is scared to be bluffed. But they're both a good part of the show. Look at all the threads and posts about those two out and you'll see that's what we seemed to focus on.

I was very impressed with Eric. Made some good bets and reads.

I think some more internet pro's would be great. But I wonder if the ratings would be as high (I'm assuming they're pretty good) if half the table was people that the general public has never heard of.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

If it would've been someone less respected on BG's seat playing super-tight short-stack poker we would be hearing comments like "what's he doing there" etc.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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If it would've been someone less respected on BG's seat playing super-tight short-stack poker we would be hearing comments like "what's he doing there" etc.

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I completely agree. I also think Elezra had a point when he complained about BG's tight style. I believe there is an unwritten rule in these types of games -- you need to give a little action if you want to be invited back. Guys like BG and DG were playing so tight that it was probably pretty frustrating for some of the other players PLUS it just doesn't make for very interesting TV.

They should beg Sammy to come back. He was by far the most entertaining player (if we discount Mike and Phil) over the first two seasons in my opinion.

* I'm not judging Barry's game; of course he can play as well as anyone. But it just doesn't make for very compelling TV, that's all.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

What I would like to see on HSP season 3:

- More Gus Hansen! (his appearance on season 2 was much too brief)

- Microphone on Gus the next time he picks up on a cocktail waitress. If we can see the hole cards we should be able to hear the pick-up lines.

- No prop bets, it was interesting for a while but it eventually bogged the game down.

- New rule: there must be at least donkey per episode. The last few episodes were relatively boring in large part because of no one of the likes of Hellmuth, Matusow, the Shiek, or Zeidman.

- At least one episode without Daniel. Like him but we've had too much of a good thing.

All in all, though, still the best poker on TV by a mile.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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It's funny how guys I thought were total douchebags like Antonio and Phil L. turned out to be not only way better poker players than I thought, but some of the cooler guys on poker tv.

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Yeah, their antics during tournaments really turned me off, and I used to think Antonio was a donk. But they seem to act different with a table full of pros. Antonio played really well and would have won big if he didn't get coolered a couple times. I have a different opinion of both of these guys after HSP.

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In a nutshell you've nicely summed up why we like HSP more than we do TV tourneys. In tourneys you can play and act like an a$s and the worst that can happen is that you are knocked out and lose your buy-in (and many of these guys are staked or won satellites). In HSP you are playing for real money - yours - so your game better be good, and if you try any of those antics you will end up getting someone pissed off at you and chances are he or she is a better player.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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If it would've been someone less respected on BG's seat playing super-tight short-stack poker we would be hearing comments like "what's he doing there" etc.

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If he was less respected than Barry then sure, we would be saying that. BG has proven that he belongs there and he has every right to play tight. It's his money. There are different style and the best pro's know how to switch gears and more important when to do so.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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If it would've been someone less respected on BG's seat playing super-tight short-stack poker we would be hearing comments like "what's he doing there" etc.

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If he was less respected than Barry then sure, we would be saying that. BG has proven that he belongs there and he has every right to play tight. It's his money. There are different style and the best pro's know how to switch gears and more important when to do so.

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And yet there were still multiple threads here like "Why is Barry playing short if he thinks he's a long term winner in this game?" and "Is Barry broke? Why doesn't he rebuy for more?" and the like.

So, if it were someone else in BG's seat it would have been WORSE, but there were still plenty of donkeys getting on his case here over the season.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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Finally, cut out the props. They do nothing for the TV audience and distract Gabe Kaplan from the game.

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FYP

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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So, if it were someone else in BG's seat it would have been WORSE, but there were still plenty of donkeys getting on his case here over the season.

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Remember all the hands don't get shown. One main difference between me and many of the other players is when I play junk, I raise with it because I detected weakness. Other players often call with junk. The producer told me he could have put on several hands with me forcing out the best hand preflop, but it would be redundant and boring.

Also, I played short because I didn't want to be a hypocrite. I always preach to people that the way to win at poker is by limiting your losses. I wanted to show that you don't have to panic and force the action just because you got unlucky. I got Aces beat in big pots in both seasons, but I still won.

I have rarely been called a tight player. I played tighter than normal because I always got full action on my good hands. If my opponents would have adjusted against me, I would have loosened up.

Another note. Eli wasn't criticizing me. He was just commenting how I played a short stack, just like in a tournament. Of course, this meant that I couldn't play as many speculative hands.

I don't intend to play tight or loose. I try to play right, and that is always dependent on how my opponents are playing.

Barry

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

Does anyone know the filming and broadcasting dates for HSP 3?

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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Does anyone know the filming and broadcasting dates for HSP 3?

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I heard that filming begins in October. Don't know about broadcast although I'd expect it no later than January.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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So, if it were someone else in BG's seat it would have been WORSE, but there were still plenty of donkeys getting on his case here over the season.

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Remember all the hands don't get shown. One main difference between me and many of the other players is when I play junk, I raise with it because I detected weakness. Other players often call with junk. The producer told me he could have put on several hands with me forcing out the best hand preflop, but it would be redundant and boring.

Also, I played short because I didn't want to be a hypocrite. I always preach to people that the way to win at poker is by limiting your losses. I wanted to show that you don't have to panic and force the action just because you got unlucky. I got Aces beat in big pots in both seasons, but I still won.

I have rarely been called a tight player. I played tighter than normal because I always got full action on my good hands. If my opponents would have adjusted against me, I would have loosened up.

Another note. Eli wasn't criticizing me. He was just commenting how I played a short stack, just like in a tournament. Of course, this meant that I couldn't play as many speculative hands.

I don't intend to play tight or loose. I try to play right, and that is always dependent on how my opponents are playing.

Barry

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Good post Barry. So, based on your comment in paragraph 2 what did you think of Daniel's play this season?

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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Good post Barry. So, based on your comment in paragraph 2 what did you think of Daniel's play this season?

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Well gee I think that's pretty clear, you don't expect Barry to just come out and call Daniel a donkey do you?

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

Didn't see enough of Juanda. Wish he had come on earlier in the season and the producers showed more of his play.

Saw way too much of David Grey. He's worthless.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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Didn't see enough of Juanda. Wish he had come on earlier in the season and the producers showed more of his play.

Saw way too much of David Grey. He's worthless.

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jeez yea, i hope he doesn't come back at a later pt...

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

First thing they have to change is to make it available on my cable ! I hate this show for the reason that I can't see it, and it sounds pretty cool

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

Big thing for me was I used to think Daniel was a good player, but I thought he played absolutely terrible in HSP season 2.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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So, if it were someone else in BG's seat it would have been WORSE, but there were still plenty of donkeys getting on his case here over the season.

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Remember all the hands don't get shown. One main difference between me and many of the other players is when I play junk, I raise with it because I detected weakness. Other players often call with junk. The producer told me he could have put on several hands with me forcing out the best hand preflop, but it would be redundant and boring.

Also, I played short because I didn't want to be a hypocrite. I always preach to people that the way to win at poker is by limiting your losses. I wanted to show that you don't have to panic and force the action just because you got unlucky. I got Aces beat in big pots in both seasons, but I still won.

I have rarely been called a tight player. I played tighter than normal because I always got full action on my good hands. If my opponents would have adjusted against me, I would have loosened up.

Another note. Eli wasn't criticizing me. He was just commenting how I played a short stack, just like in a tournament. Of course, this meant that I couldn't play as many speculative hands.

I don't intend to play tight or loose. I try to play right, and that is always dependent on how my opponents are playing.

Barry

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Will you be playing in season 3? I hope so. You're probably my favorite player to watch/listen to.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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Will you be playing in season 3? I hope so. You're probably my favorite player to watch/listen to.

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+1

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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First thing they have to change is to make it available on my cable ! I hate this show for the reason that I can't see it, and it sounds pretty cool

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My cable company dropped GSN from the regular cable line-up a few weeks ago, so I'm now paying $30 more a month for digital cable just so I can see HSP. It's that good.

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

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As bad as he played wasn't Eli actually up? Won some huge hands.
And with Antonio wasn't it the reverse? Played well but was very unlucky.

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If by unlucky you mean outplayed by jen harman you would be correct sir

Re: HSP Season II Wrap Up
 

Changes I'd like to see:

- No more props. I wouldn't mind if you could follow along with the prop bets, but constantly hearing the players talk about them when you have no idea who has what is pretty lame.

- Control Gabe Kaplan. He really started getting on my nerves. It seemed like every time a player was telling a story you could barely hear it because Gabe was talking over them. And enough about David Grey already, one impression was plenty.

Speaking of David Grey, I can't imagine him coming back for next season after being ripped apart by Gabe Kaplan so much.