I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

Villain is 44/14 over 220 hands and has not really been very active preflop. I really didn't even notice we were 200bb deep when I called preflop cuz his rr was smallish and I just didn't think much about it. It really looked like he was just trying to build the pot and deflower me. I think I should have folded pre perhaps. Anyone felt this??

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($800.30)
Button ($1345.13)
SB ($262.50)
BB ($742.71)
Hero ($791.80)
MP ($400)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $14</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $36</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $22.

Flop: ($78) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $75</font>, Hero calls $75.

Turn: ($228) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $218.78</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $446.78

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

Oof.

How's about a turn lead that deep?

I think it's a pretty clear fold PF, yeah, but after that I think you played it okay - I can remember similar situations.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

I like the turn lead as well to figure out if you've got the best hand. If called, I'd block river, fold to a push. I'm more likely to play the hand exactly as you did, but I do sort of like the turn lead.

Pre-flop I never fold. I like a 4-bet (fold to a push) or call. He's in position and may be playing more LAG against another deep player since you want to avoid confrontations for your entire stack.

And the tiny re-raise preflop means two things: 1. It's pretty cheap to see this flop, and 2. This guy sucks and I want to play against him.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

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Oof.

How's about a turn lead that deep?

I think it's a pretty clear fold PF, yeah, but after that I think you played it okay - I can remember similar situations.

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This really a fold PF? Is it reverse implied odds of hitting TPTK OOP + not wanting to play a big pot even when you hit a "good" flop?

I would never have made this fold PF.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

folding pre = LMAO

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

Turn is meh, I'd probably call

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

[ QUOTE ]
folding pre = LMAO

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Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

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Oof.

How's about a turn lead that deep?

I think it's a pretty clear fold PF, yeah, but after that I think you played it okay - I can remember similar situations.

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This really a fold PF? Is it reverse implied odds of hitting TPTK OOP + not wanting to play a big pot even when you hit a "good" flop?

I would never have made this fold PF.

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Yep. f_v can LMAO all he wants, but he hasn't explained why this is a good call to make - 44/14s like calling, not re-raising PF. This deep I think it's a call w/ AKs, but AKo = fold. It's close either way. Any WTSD, snipes?

f_v - I like the advice you gave to snipes on how to play the hand.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

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folding pre = LMAO

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A bunch of people were trying to tell me the that folding pre here is good last week when I posted 2 similar hands. I thought I had a leak in my game... I dunno. I definetly call pre here though. I would have played it the same way most likely.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

I don't think there are any hands I'd fold at 200BB but call at 100BB against a bad villain. What am I missing?

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

Given how you played it I don't see how this is a fold.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

This looks like a call to me.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

i think it's just fine. although to those saying fold pf, which i don't agree with at all(i'd rather 4-bet than fold although i think calling is optimal)you're folding cause you have reverse implied against aa/kk obv, so if you fold AKo here are you 4-betting kk?

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

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folding pre = LMAO

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LOL @ triumph

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

Triumph-
His wtsd was 17 over 220 hands. And ya the reverse implied odds of hitting TPTK I think suck when you are 200bb deep bc I have no problem getting it all in w/ TPTK for 100bb but it isn't necessarily my goal to get a 200bb stack in against an infrequent preflop reraiser.

I like the idea of a turn lead, but when he calls I almost feel like I need to c/f the river then. If he calls the turn w/ QQ, and I don't know if he does or not, then he should check behind on the river as well. Maybe turn lead is the answer.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

There is a zero percent chance that I'm folding this preflop. I don't know how much my thinking about the game is influenced by the fact that I get reraised preflop a lot, but no way am I folding here. I don't hate calling him down, but I'm pretty sure I'd bet out at some point.

Can we really put him on AA or KK? I agree that it's likely, but he knows that too, and your check/call on the flop, then checking turn makes him think he can push you off. It's sure what I'm thinking when I'm the preflop reraiser.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

I don't like a turn lead at all, I think c/c down is great here.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

You played it fine imo.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

Given the way that you played the hand you just simply CANNOT put him on AA, which is the only hand you are reasonably worried about. That doesn't mean he doesn't have it, it just means you can't be sure enough to check/fold the turn.

If you played this hand faster then you will have a much better idea of where you are at. His stats suggest he is kinda a lagtard - but not that aggressive. Reraise pre, lead flop, lead turn. If he starts playing back at you - then you give up. But, its too possible that he continuation bets and possibly second barrel's a worse pocket pair. He could have put you on a missed draw - which is another reason he led out.

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

Given the combination of flop and turn bet sizes, I fold the turn as well.

Regarding the post title and the consideration of folding preflop: I think it's time a self-analysis session titled deepish stacked poker and me.


(I do not wish for that to sound snarky whatsoever. I don't want to color your exercise in any way. Posts here can't hold a candle to reflection, self-knowledge and experience with regard to this type of poker.)

Re: I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT STACK SIZES PF!
 

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Given the way that you played the hand you just simply CANNOT put him on AA, which is the only hand you are reasonably worried about. That doesn't mean he doesn't have it, it just means you can't be sure enough to check/fold the turn.

If you played this hand faster then you will have a much better idea of where you are at. His stats suggest he is kinda a lagtard - but not that aggressive. Reraise pre, lead flop, lead turn. If he starts playing back at you - then you give up. But, its too possible that he continuation bets and possibly second barrel's a worse pocket pair. He could have put you on a missed draw - which is another reason he led out.

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I hope you are not serious. 4betting preflop and then betting flop and leading turn, which would be a shove, would lead for no room to fold if played back at. These loose/passive-iush types of players I don't think are going to try and push me off my hand here w/ JJ nor are they reraising preflop w/ KQ.

To those saying call turn, do you just c/c the rest on the river?

For those who say lead, what is your plan for the river when called. And I assume you fold to a shove on the turn.