MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

Only a few hands at the table, but villian has been very active PF, and pretty active post-flop as well, he also bought in short.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($1657.07)
Button ($719.45)
SB ($559.19)
BB ($1058.85)
Hero ($1266.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $21</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) calls $18, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($48) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $40</font>, Hero calls $40.

Turn: ($128) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $100</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $200</font>

Planning on not putting any more in the pot.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

woohoo the free showdown raise

i prefer to call all the way down regardless of river though....imo he has something like JT or 99 or 77 a lot here

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

Am I crazy if I prefer ATo only from the CO and button?

As for the rest, I do it sometimes. Which river cards are you betting?

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

I like

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

i dont like this personally.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

I like this, especially since villain is unknown

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

i'd rather raise the flop, or just call the turn. but i see the merit of this play and don't rly hate it. problem is, do you ever do this with 97 or a set or anything?

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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problem is, do you ever do this with 97 or a set or anything?

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but villian has been very active PF, and pretty active post-flop as well, he also bought in short.

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doesn't matter

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

This looks strong

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

I don't mind this, though with his stack I probably just push it in instead of minraising. If he pushes you're calling right?

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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Which river cards are you betting?

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Non-Spade A, T, maybe a total blank, sometimes, but rarely.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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problem is, do you ever do this with 97 or a set or anything?

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Rarely, and usually only after using his play a few times.

Whether or not it goes to showdown, the same impression is made.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

i use this play when my opponent has a big stack to try to get to showdown, I'm just interested in why you don't just push in here when his stack is small. Am I giving free money to small stacks?

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

so you raise to limit your loss when behind and to stop a bluff on the river that you feel it would be -ev to call. you might also get some more money out of a weaker made hand this way if we assume he will not vbet river with a worse hand and you will be tempted to take the free showdown. you also make a draw put in more money as a dog which makes you money even though it is right for him to call. is this correct?

you lose some when he is on a semibluff and would have bluffed a blank river for more than 100. you save some when he would have vbet a better hand then yours on a blank river. or if you would have folded to a bluff on the river you now win the pot + 100 instead.

if you thought you could play the river better than him then a call looks better I think. the problem ofc is that any K,Q,J,9,7 is going to make it difficult to make the right decision esp since you only have a few hands on villain and can't know how he will react to different river cards.

you could raise more to make it incorrect for him to call with a draw. the problem is that if he calls anyway it will only be a small mistake but if he has you beat it will have been a big mistake on your part.

If your raise won't make him slowdown with a worse hand then obv it's no good but if you think he will make it easy for you then i can't really see anything wrong with it.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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I don't mind this, though with his stack I probably just push it in instead of minraising. If he pushes you're calling right?

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OMG NO

btw Big Jim - Nice job with the stealth-edit of the OP. =P

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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I'm just interested in why you don't just push in here when his stack is small.

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Villian started the hand with over 90BBs, I wouldn't say that he's short.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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i prefer to call all the way down regardless of river though....imo he has something like JT or 99 or 77 a lot here

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How big a river bet are you calling?

How often do you expect a mostly-unknown to fire that third barrell?

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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Am I crazy if I prefer ATo only from the CO and button?

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Bottom of my range, and I'll usually fold it, here, but rest of the table had been pretty tight, and we were only 5 handed.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

Calling is much better than raising IMO.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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Calling is much better than raising IMO.

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How big a river bet are you calling?

How often do you expect a mostly-unknown to fire that third barrell?

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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Calling is much better than raising IMO.

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How big a river bet are you calling?

How often do you expect a mostly-unknown to fire that third barrell?

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Obviously you can be put to the test if a safe looking card comes up and he bets fairly strongly. You just have to make a decision, but to me raising the turn is a bit like saying you don't think you'll make enough correct decisions on the river. 3-barrelling with nothing is actually quite rare at 3/6, though a decent bluff card could come up here. Equally a scare care for villian could come up and they may check down a hand that would call your flop raise.

Probably I'd call most rivers against a wild/active villian. Especially if they bought in short - hardly any really decent players do that.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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Equally a scare care for villian could come up and they may check down a hand that would call your flop raise.

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This may or may not be a good thing.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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Equally a scare care for villian could come up and they may check down a hand that would call your flop raise.

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This may or may not be a good thing.

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Yes but hero's hand is one he wants to take to showdown, and not build the pot up. The point of the min-raise on the turn is not really to bluff or value-bet but to try to get to a showdown. I'm just saying that he may get there without having to call another substantial bet, even if villian has a slightly better hand (which I agree is unlikely in that villian is probably way ahead if he is ahead).

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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i prefer to call all the way down regardless of river though....imo he has something like JT or 99 or 77 a lot here

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How big a river bet are you calling?

How often do you expect a mostly-unknown to fire that third barrell?

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i dont expect him to fire a third barrell that often unless ive seen him be especially crazy. i expect a large % of the time river goes check/check.

as for calling if he does bet, it depends on timing and amount. im probably not calling more than 1/2 pot but it totally depends

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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Equally a scare care for villian could come up and they may check down a hand that would call your flop raise.

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This may or may not be a good thing.

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Yes but hero's hand is one he wants to take to showdown, and not build the pot up. The point of the min-raise on the turn is not really to bluff or value-bet but to try to get to a showdown. I'm just saying that he may get there without having to call another substantial bet, even if villian has a slightly better hand (which I agree is unlikely in that villian is probably way ahead if he is ahead).

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My point is that if he has a worse hand that he'd call the minraise with, then we lose money each time a scare card freezes up the betting on the river.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

Jim why not 250? seems stronger for minimal more cost

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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Jim why not 250? seems stronger for minimal more cost

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And we want it to seem stronger why? To make it less likely a weaker ten calls?

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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Jim why not 250? seems stronger for minimal more cost

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And we want it to seem stronger why? To make it less likely a weaker ten calls?

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No to make it less likely we get rebluffed because some people have the ability to spot minraises.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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No to make it less likely we get rebluffed because some people have the ability to spot minraises.

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He is WAY more likely to "take his odds" with spades or J9 vs a minraise than to jam over it after you called flop and minraised turn, if that is in fact what he has. Our flat call/minraise turn line may very well look very scary to him, as it looks like we are trying to keep him in with a huge hand, and doesn't look like a semibluff. Raising more obviously has the advantage of charging more if he has a draw, but I am not doing it because it "looks stronger" and im scared of him jamming. If Jim thinks its far more likely for him to have a hand like JT/QT/KT than a semibluff, and hed call the minraise but not the 250 because it looks "stronger", what would you prefer to do? I'm fine with Jim's play here.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

inta raise flop or call turn

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

how does this make 9-QT pay you more? I think he is folding or c/f river too often. He seems to like his tpwk good enough to bet it out. just call and let him bet the river instead aka standard which gives him no chanse to bluff you off your hand for the same cost.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

[ QUOTE ]
Only a few hands at the table, but villian has been very active PF, and pretty active post-flop as well, he also bought in short.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($1657.07)
Button ($719.45)
SB ($559.19)
BB ($1058.85)
Hero ($1266.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $21</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) calls $18, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($48) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $40</font>, Hero calls $40.

Turn: ($128) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $100</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $200</font>

Planning on not putting any more in the pot.

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pretty bitchin

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

[ QUOTE ]
how does this make 9-QT pay you more? I think he is folding or c/f river too often. He seems to like his tpwk good enough to bet it out. just call and let him bet the river instead aka standard which gives him no chanse to bluff you off your hand for the same cost.

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I'm saying more likely to call raise to 200 than to 250 because the 250 looks "stronger" as Dan stated.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

do you find just calling sb:s bet here not an option?

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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do you find just calling sb:s bet here not an option?

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Of course its an option, I am saying I am ok with Jim's line as well.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

Haven't read responses but I like the play.

My default line would be to call probably.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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Only a few hands at the table, but villian has been very active PF, and pretty active post-flop as well, he also bought in short.


[/ QUOTE ]
o man just shove the turn or make a large pot committing raise...
how do u not like AT here?

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

I think this play is huge against a solid/good player. I don't know why i've never thought about this before but I really like it.

If I were villian this play would freeze me unless I had a very strong hand.

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

yo if a strong player did this to me i would be like "he has A10o" then I would push and you would fold. you don't minraise very much right?

Re: MINRAIZIN\'! : $3/$6 6-Max
 

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I think this play is huge against an average player.

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