Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

From MSNL:

[ QUOTE ]
People were asking for a seperate thread so here it is. 2/4, 3/6, and 5/10 are staying together. SSNL mods don't want 1/2 being pushed there, so that won't happen.

I wonder how a:

25c/50c- (Micro)
50c/1 // 1/2 (Small)
2/4 // 3/6 // 5/10 (Medium)
10/20+ (High)

split would work. I remember people whining in HSNL about 5/10 cluttering their forum before, so I doubt they would mind enforcing it. Would the microstakes forum be worthless though? I definitely think the "new" small stakes forum would have enough traffic, so thats not really an issue. IF a change was going to happen, this seems to be most practical for both sides as it is. Anyway, here it is for discussion. I don't have strong feelings either way, and I think Jim feels the same way about it as I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what is being proposed. MSNL folks are jumping on in favor of it. It is being discussed in the mod forum. As it effects SSNL greatly as well, we need to weigh in.

Personally, ***IF*** there is a splitting of NL strat into 4 forums, I am in favor of it being split along the lines above. Thoughts from SSNL?

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

yes please. 200 and 50 play way too differently

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

It seems wise to me

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

Very good split..

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

sure. although, the micro stakes forum would get cluttered i think.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

SEXY

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

yeah sounds coo

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

holla

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

I dunno. I don't post many hands, but when I do I typically don't need super-standard advice any more. I'd hate not getting responses from the 100NL/200NL regulars just because I play 25NL, even though most of the hands I post could easily happen at that level as well. I'm also wondering whether there'll be a good community in microstakes that writes the kind of theory/Pooh-Bah posts that I love SSNL for.

Meh. -0 (don't really like it, but if everyone does, whatever).

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

well when these splits happen, the unhappiest parties are always the ones that play in the lowest forum, i think.


the obvious answer is to play good and move up to nl100

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

AJ - The split sounds good. SSNL often has too many threads but not enough discussion per thread for non-standard hands (unless posted by notable reg / mod), so if it improves discussion of 100NL / 1/2 NL then I'm all for it.

orange - I think the point is to improve MSNL/SSNL quality and make MLNL the 'clutter' forum as you put it.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

i think microlimit forums will be cluttered. not just with alot of traffic but bad advice. as we saw in the msnl/ssnl split, alot of good players left ssnl and we really missed their advice.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. I don't post many hands, but when I do I typically don't need super-standard advice any more. I'd hate not getting responses from the 100NL/200NL regulars just because I play 25NL, even though most of the hands I post could easily happen at that level as well. I'm also wondering whether there'll be a good community in microstakes that writes the kind of theory/Pooh-Bah posts that I love SSNL for.

Meh. -0 (don't really like it, but if everyone does, whatever).

[/ QUOTE ]

Micro players can still read SSNL for this stuff, and I'm sure I and the other SSNL posters would pop in to micro and check out some hands.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

there is bad advice in all forums, to keep the micro quality up will depend upon the best micro regs and forum mods.

as magoo mentioned the lowest forum does pay the price, i don't disagree with that, i would suggest all micro regs at least lurk in the forum one above.

this split will benefit 100/200NL a lot IMO though esp 100NL.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

I'm in favor of it. Let's be honest, when's the last time we had a good discussion about a hand that took place at <100NL? I might include .25/.50 in Small Stakes, but 25NL and lower is definitely micro.

AZPlaya, you'll be back up with us ballers someday [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] (jk bro you know I got mad [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

I dont really like this idea. Who is gonna post in the micro forum? Everyone who is at least ok at poker needs like few months to move from micro limits to small limits. I think orange is right.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

anyone who plays 25 and 50 NL will post in the micro forum

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

Fine as long as SSNL regulars pop down into the micro forum to help out everyone at 50NL, 25NL and 10NL...although I think in reality the micro forum will be left in the dust for the most part. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

The micro forum might become cluttered with bad advice, but along those same lines the 100/200 forum would probably contain a much better signal to noise ratio.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

as listed in OP, 50NL and below.

and if it's that easy to move from micro to ssnl, why is it so painful to post hands there for a few months?

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

there are still plenty of people who play 25 and 50 NL who are good posters with good advice. advice for the lower stakes isnt usually that in depth because the game plays so straightfoward

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

Sounds good

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

[ QUOTE ]
anyone who plays 25 and 50 NL will post in the micro forum

[/ QUOTE ]
Those who play for few months and those who cant beat higher limits? I dont think that's the quality of advices micro players are looking for.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

heres my reasoning

2nd hand at table. No reads. What do you put villian on here and do you call this bet?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $381.30
UTG+1: $171.90
CO: $196
Hero: $188
SB: $195.95
BB: $150.15

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with Q Q
UTG raises to $7, 2 folds, Hero raises to $21, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 3 5 6 ($45, 2 players)
UTG is all-in $360.3, hero????


at 25 or 50 NL this is an instacall since most of these players will show you just about any 2 cards. where up at the 200's its def a little more indepth and while a call may be in order here a fold isnt that bad of a play

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

I like the idea because in my few "splashings" at 200NL I have definitely noticed a difference in play from the good ol' days at 25NL and 50NL.

The only problem I see will be the advice of the regular posters in that forum...

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

I'll miss the advice from Orange and Goofyballer and so on (just a couple of representative names) when they happen to be logged in when I post hands, but I'll deal with it until I move up.

I'm also okay with the way things are. I like occasionally responding to hands above what I currently play, and I doubt I will anymore if the split happens.

But I can be a Micro guy for awhile.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

the mods for the micro forum are definitely going to get worked harder, so i guess we should ask you, AJ, you still happy to have this job? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

the most difficult change here will be the fault lines created among posters. many SSNLers play outside the limits of SSNL as they stand now. Jam and others play 600NL regularly, but still find the time to come to SSNL and respond to threads that are very elementary to them at this point. as long as people like Jam, epdaws, Keyser, younghov, dbitel and everyone else i could list here continue to help out the small stakes guys, i think they'll do fine.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

I am currently playing at 50NL. I think the split is good. The microstakes won't the best advice on the forum probably; if you need indepth Pooh-Bahposts or hand discussions you could go to the SSNL.

I think players from 25NL and 50NL go to the SSNL to reply to threads. But probably only the somewhat better players.

So, I guess the SSNL will become a good forum and the micro's worse. But if you want to become a good poker player you should be able to work around the bad advice.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

good....I can see 50NL being posted here, but that is about it

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

I think its a good idea - NL25 is so different from NL100 and 200. Still, as with others, my only worry is if there will still be quality advice for those trying to work through those ranks.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

I think it's a bad idea.

SSNL is all about learning the basics of NL and hand reading, rather than the absolute levels of the blinds. Maybe the range we put villains on changes somewhat as we move up the levels, but also it does depending on whether villain is solid, wild, a fish etc., so whilst the analysis might change a bit, the nature of the questions and thought processes within the SSNL forum are similar across the majority of the questions- what does he have, how do i best play against that?

Contrast that with MSNL where this is more of a given, and the analysis seems to be more about when and where to make moves, good times for bluffing etc. I don't see that a split in SSNL would really give rise to 2 forums with different content, so I don't see the need.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a bad idea.

SSNL is all about learning the basics of NL and hand reading, rather than the absolute levels of the blinds. Maybe the range we put villains on changes somewhat as we move up the levels, but also it does depending on whether villain is solid, wild, a fish etc., so whilst the analysis might change a bit, the nature of the questions and thought processes within the SSNL forum are similar across the majority of the questions- what does he have, how do i best play against that?

Contrast that with MSNL where this is more of a given, and the analysis seems to be more about when and where to make moves, good times for bluffing etc. I don't see that a split in SSNL would really give rise to 2 forums with different content, so I don't see the need.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bro, NL25 and lower is NOT about hand reading, at least not compared to NL50 and up. How are you supposed to read hands when half the players are 40/5/.5?

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bro, NL25 and lower is NOT about hand reading, at least not compared to NL50 and up. How are you supposed to read hands when half the players are 40/5/.5?

[/ QUOTE ]

40/5/.5! That's tight agressive for these guys! But you see his point...

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a bad idea.

SSNL is all about learning the basics of NL and hand reading, rather than the absolute levels of the blinds. Maybe the range we put villains on changes somewhat as we move up the levels, but also it does depending on whether villain is solid, wild, a fish etc., so whilst the analysis might change a bit, the nature of the questions and thought processes within the SSNL forum are similar across the majority of the questions- what does he have, how do i best play against that?

Contrast that with MSNL where this is more of a given, and the analysis seems to be more about when and where to make moves, good times for bluffing etc. I don't see that a split in SSNL would really give rise to 2 forums with different content, so I don't see the need.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bro, NL25 and lower is NOT about hand reading, at least not compared to NL50 and up. How are you supposed to read hands when half the players are 40/5/.5?

[/ QUOTE ]

You've now managed to sound like a dick in both threads and your wrong. Why can't you learn to read hands at 25nl? Imo it plays incredibly similar to 100nl. Just a bit less aggression and a few more dumb calls.

Anyways I've always thought 200nl is small stakes and thus always posted my hands here and agree fully w/the split. I'm also sure the 100/200nl guys will pop into the micro forum a fair bit.

Paul

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a bad idea.

SSNL is all about learning the basics of NL and hand reading, rather than the absolute levels of the blinds. Maybe the range we put villains on changes somewhat as we move up the levels, but also it does depending on whether villain is solid, wild, a fish etc., so whilst the analysis might change a bit, the nature of the questions and thought processes within the SSNL forum are similar across the majority of the questions- what does he have, how do i best play against that?

Contrast that with MSNL where this is more of a given, and the analysis seems to be more about when and where to make moves, good times for bluffing etc. I don't see that a split in SSNL would really give rise to 2 forums with different content, so I don't see the need.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bro, NL25 and lower is NOT about hand reading, at least not compared to NL50 and up. How are you supposed to read hands when half the players are 40/5/.5?

[/ QUOTE ]

You've now managed to sound like a dick in both threads and your wrong. Why can't you learn to read hands at 25nl? Imo it plays incredibly similar to 100nl. Just a bit less aggression and a few more dumb calls.

Anyways I've always thought 200nl is small stakes and thus always posted my hands here and agree fully w/the split. I'm also sure the 100/200nl guys will pop into the micro forum a fair bit.

Paul

[/ QUOTE ]

In almost every NL25 thread I look at, the biggest mistakes I see are the bet sizing, misplaying draws, and passive play. I apologize if I look like a dick, I just meant to say that from my experience, most budding NL25 players have a lot bigger leaks in their game than reading their opponents hands.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

[ QUOTE ]


Bro, NL25 and lower is NOT about hand reading, at least not compared to NL50 and up. How are you supposed to read hands when half the players are 40/5/.5?

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, so it's level 0.5 rather than level 1 thinking, i still don't think there's a big difference in the type of discussion that would be had in 2 separate forums.

If the interesting debate comes mainly from higher limit hands atm, that's more a function of the more experienced posters (i.e. the ones who are better at recognising debate-worthy hands and who are more widely known and hence have a certain badge of quality to their threads) playing towards the higher levels.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a bad idea.

SSNL is all about learning the basics of NL and hand reading, rather than the absolute levels of the blinds. Maybe the range we put villains on changes somewhat as we move up the levels, but also it does depending on whether villain is solid, wild, a fish etc., so whilst the analysis might change a bit, the nature of the questions and thought processes within the SSNL forum are similar across the majority of the questions- what does he have, how do i best play against that?

Contrast that with MSNL where this is more of a given, and the analysis seems to be more about when and where to make moves, good times for bluffing etc. I don't see that a split in SSNL would really give rise to 2 forums with different content, so I don't see the need.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a MSNLer's (and sometimes SSNLer) point of view regarding your post:

If your idea could somehow be a reality, and the posts be separated by the level of complicated nature of the hands, nobody would be considering this split. However, in MSNL, there's a huge influx of 200NL posts that are very standard and that many of the regulars who play higher than that regard as clutter.

Some suggested 200NL be SSNL only, but this would not be fair to the already overcrowded SSNL, so a compromise (a 4th forum) was introduced.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

lol am I going to have to move to the 50 game to get good responses to my hands? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I proposed this a nano forum a few days ago, and someone said that there wouldn't be traffic in a nano forum. This kinda makes sense.

I'd kinda prefer to keep everything 0.5/1 and under in this forum, but meh, whatever you guys think is reasonable.

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

There is nothing to stop people playing 25nl or 50nl reading or participating in discussion in this proposed new small stakes forum is there?

Re: Potential NL forum split: Speak up
 

Meh, I am indifferent on the matter.