Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

...and he looks great.

6 up and 6 down so far. I'd be more than a little worried if I was the rest of the american league.

GoTwinsGoTwinsGoTwinsGoTwinsGoTwinsGoTwinsGoTwinsG oTwins

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

I picked Twins/Mets for the WS in a futures wager a few weeks back, feeling pretty ok about it right now

NT

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

[ QUOTE ]
I picked Twins/Mets for the WS in a futures wager a few weeks back, feeling pretty ok about it right now

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be my pick for the most likely pairing atm.

WHOA and now liriano is keeling over.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

f***!

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

and liriano's been pulled.

Wow.

If I were a trader I'd be selling that future like right now.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

And of course I jinx the whole freaking thing. Bloop single followed by trainers coming out and Liriano's exist.

Boo

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

Wow. Putting Liriano in today is really really silly on the organizations behalf.

Sure, they are barely leading the WC race, but come on...the upside to having a HEALTHY Liriano for YEARS for CHEAP is SO SO SO SO SO much better than the *chance* that they *hold onto* the WC this year, while putting Liriano to risk.

Cliff notes: Maybe the org. was 99.9% sure that he was 100% healthy, so I'm not going to blame them per se, but I'm saying if I'm in charge, I wait until Liriano bangs down my office door demanding to go in before I put him in.

The upside is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE. Both absolutely, and financially. Just not worth the risk...

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Putting Liriano in today is really really silly on the organizations behalf.

Sure, they are barely leading the WC race, but come on...the upside to having a HEALTHY Liriano for YEARS for CHEAP is SO SO SO SO SO much better than the *chance* that they *hold onto* the WC this year, while putting Liriano to risk.

Cliff notes: Maybe the org. was 99.9% sure that he was 100% healthy, so I'm not going to blame them per se, but I'm saying if I'm in charge, I wait until Liriano bangs down my office door demanding to go in before I put him in.

The upside is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE. Both absolutely, and financially. Just not worth the risk...

[/ QUOTE ]This is the first time I've ever seen someone write cliff notes that are just as long as the rest of the post.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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f***!

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@#)$(*@#$)(#*@$)#(@*$)@#(*$#)@($*#%&!)@$&!
#@)$*#@)(%^%)(*&^(*@&$(*!&#@_)#@!_)%(_ @#)^%*$
#)%(*^)(&^#)($&*#)$(&@!)#$&!@)*#$& amp;@!#*_)%#@
^%)(*^_)#^($_#%*)$(&@()*&$(!*&$#@)(!#) @(!*#!@

Could have gotten some sick talent for him in my keeper league before the trade deadline.....what could have been.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

Let's try not to be too results oriented, okay?

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

They're already talking about Tommy John surgery.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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Let's try not to be too results oriented, okay?

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I'm not. As I said, I'm not blaming the org. for putting him in. For all I know, they may have been 99.9% sure he was totally fine. Plus they are pushing for the WC/division title. There are many reasons why they may have trotted him out there.

All I'm saying is I would have been EXTREMELY patient with this injury. Maybe they thought they were being patient..but anyway, this season means NOTHING in terms of what "could be" for the future of the Minnesota Twins. I'm going to probably shut FL down until he (and everyone else) beat down my door demanding he plays.

I wouldn't want to be the guy (in the org.) who deems him "OK" to play just to see this happen. Yikes.

Of course there is the argument that even if they shut him down for the remainder of the season, he may have the same problem in spring 07. Some of these injuries (like TJ) require surgery. Time along won't heal them.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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I'm going to probably shut FL down until he (and everyone else) beat down my door demanding he plays.

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They did this with Johan Santana and they are largely considered idiots for keeping him in long relief for as long as they did. GM Terry Ryan was patient enough with Liriano; this injury was going to happen no matter what.

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Some of these injuries (like TJ) require surgery. Time along won't heal them.

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There's a good UTK article on Baseball Prospectus about how pitchers are coming back from TJ at an alarmingly good rate, and that a significant number are even seeing increased performance. It also alludes to the future when Thomas Juan surgery may be pre-emptively taken on to avoid future injuries AND to boost performance.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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but anyway, this season means NOTHING in terms of what "could be" for the future of the Minnesota Twins.

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With Liriano and Santana, the Twins had/have a great chance of winning the World Series.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

Good job, Twins!

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but anyway, this season means NOTHING in terms of what "could be" for the future of the Minnesota Twins.

[/ QUOTE ]



With Liriano and Santana, the Twins had/have a great chance of winning the World Series.

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I know that. They also have a chance of winning for each of the next handful of years, IF Liriano becomes/became fully healed from the original injury. This season doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.

Q: If all intelligence showed that Liriano was "95% healthy", or put another way "there was a 95% chance he was completely recovered", would you have taken him off the DL and added him to the rotation this week?

At what number would you personally draw the line, UCF?

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

Did he get injured and pulled or was he pulled for allowing some hits?

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

Injured and pulled. Only had given up 1 hit.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

jeez, u wouldn't think a team like the twins would risk their future for a couple of weeks. Sure, it's a tight race, but it's not fair to the future or to liriano for them to try this. Hopefully, this doesn't get too bad...

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

From what I heard, the injury wasn't going to heal with more time, either he was going to be able to go out their and pitch, or he would sit out the rest of the season and get surgery, so it's not like more rest would have helped...

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
I'm going to probably shut FL down until he (and everyone else) beat down my door demanding he plays.


They did this with Johan Santana and they are largely considered idiots for keeping him in long relief for as long as they did. GM Terry Ryan was patient enough with Liriano; this injury was going to happen no matter what.

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well to be fair, santana has never had any injury problems. maybe cuz he was babied early on? who knows. its easy to look back and say "i told you so" but who knows how things would have worked out if done differently.

and also according to espn, liriano felt perfectly fine in a rehab start and the org didn't think they rushed him back in. if anything, if liriano needs surgery, it is better now than later so he can be ready to go at the beginning of 07 rather than the middle of it.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

I don't know where you heard that, but if that is truly the case, and he would need TJ surgery, then it makes sense to put him out there now.

The earlier you find out, the better.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

According to reports, Liriano heard a "pop" in his elbow on his last pitch, and felt a lot of pain. This is classic UCL tear. Tommy John next week, even with no setbacks in rehab (which is unlikely), will be out almost all of next year, and probably won't be "right" until mid-2008 at the earliest.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

[ QUOTE ]
According to reports, Liriano heard a "pop" in his elbow on his last pitch, and felt a lot of pain. This is classic UCL tear. Tommy John next week, even with no setbacks in rehab (which is unlikely), will be out almost all of next year, and probably won't be "right" until mid-2008 at the earliest.

[/ QUOTE ]

A perfect example of this is Octavio Dotel this year.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

[ QUOTE ]
According to reports, Liriano heard a "pop" in his elbow on his last pitch, and felt a lot of pain. This is classic UCL tear. Tommy John next week, even with no setbacks in rehab (which is unlikely), will be out almost all of next year, and probably won't be "right" until mid-2008 at the earliest.

[/ QUOTE ]

sad

bright news is pitchers often are better after getting the surgery, and he'll be 24 in 08 so thats still very young

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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jeez, u wouldn't think a team like the twins would risk their future for a couple of weeks. Sure, it's a tight race, but it's not fair to the future or to liriano for them to try this. Hopefully, this doesn't get too bad...

[/ QUOTE ]

baseball teams can't worry about the future all the time.

Look at the cubs from a few years ago. They had an awesome starting rotation, blew it in the playoffs, and everyone is like, no biggie, look at our rotation.

Wood, Prior, Zambrano, some other dudes I forgot.

THen, they get hurt, or the offense sucks, and the cubs turn into the worst team in the majors in a few years.

Even with Johan + Liriano going full blast next year,t here is nothing saying the other 3 starters suck, and the offense sucks, and the twins go 79-83.

If they have a chance, they have to go for it.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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I don't know where you heard that, but if that is truly the case, and he would need TJ surgery, then it makes sense to put him out there now.

The earlier you find out, the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone on Espn News said it, can't remember who.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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Even with Johan + Liriano going full blast next year,t here is nothing saying the other 3 starters suck, and the offense sucks, and the twins go 79-83.

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What?? No.

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If they have a chance, they have to go for it.

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Again, not necessarily. You do realize they are BARELY holding the WILD CARD, right? And IIRC, they have a handful of games remaining with the Tigers. There is/was still a chance that they don't even make the playoffs this year, even if Liriano pitched healthy for the duration.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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[ QUOTE ]

Even with Johan + Liriano going full blast next year,t here is nothing saying the other 3 starters suck, and the offense sucks, and the twins go 79-83.

[/ QUOTE ]

What?? No.

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you're telling me the twins have 0 chance of having a down season in '07 with a healthy liriano and santana? next year, mauer will not hit .350, redmond not .330, morneau not .325, punto not .300, tyner not .315, bartlett not .330. that level of across-the-board decline from your offense is hard to offset.

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[ QUOTE ]

If they have a chance, they have to go for it.

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Again, not necessarily. You do realize they are BARELY holding the WILD CARD, right? And IIRC, they have a handful of games remaining with the Tigers. There is/was still a chance that they don't even make the playoffs this year, even if Liriano pitched healthy for the duration.

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this is precisely the point. sending liriano in now is critical because he could easily mean the difference between going to the playoffs and not. if your team is way ahead or way behind, it makes much less sense to take risks.

i don't know how badly hurt the team thought liriano was going into that start, but the way the twins baby their young pitchers, i really doubt they thought there was any significant chance of jeopardizing his career.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

As a Yankees fan, I'm sort of glad he's hurt.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

[ QUOTE ]
Again, not necessarily. You do realize they are BARELY holding the WILD CARD, right? And IIRC, they have a handful of games remaining with the Tigers. There is/was still a chance that they don't even make the playoffs this year, even if Liriano pitched healthy for the duration.


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baseball prospectus has them in the playoffs 85% of the time, WC about 65, divison 20

thats pretty likely, they are done with the Tigers, but just won 3of4 vs them and 2 of 3 vs another very likely playoff team in Oakland

they have 3critical games left with the WhiteSox, at home that will likely determine the wildcard

*very good news, no structural damage to his elbow, so no tommy john, still shutdown for the year, hopefully next year will be a full season of him dominating

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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As a Yankees fan, I'm sort of glad he's hurt.

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As a baseball fan, I most definitely am not.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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As a Yankees fan, I'm sort of glad he's hurt.

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As a baseball fan, I most definitely am not.

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Couldn't agree more, couldn't find the words I was looking for when I made the first statement.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Again, not necessarily. You do realize they are BARELY holding the WILD CARD, right? And IIRC, they have a handful of games remaining with the Tigers. There is/was still a chance that they don't even make the playoffs this year, even if Liriano pitched healthy for the duration.


[/ QUOTE ]

baseball prospectus has them in the playoffs 85% of the time, WC about 65, divison 20

thats pretty likely, they are done with the Tigers, but just won 3of4 vs them and 2 of 3 vs another very likely playoff team in Oakland

they have 3critical games left with the WhiteSox, at home that will likely determine the wildcard

*very good news, no structural damage to his elbow, so no tommy john, still shutdown for the year, hopefully next year will be a full season of him dominating

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Good to hear, that's pretty much the best possible news for any non-Twins fan. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] No Liriano in the playoffs (yay Oakland) and no Tommy John for later. That kid has a bright future if he stays healthy.

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

Prohorn,

I was going to flame you, but after reading through your logical posts in this thread I have been convinced that you know more about baseball and the particulars of this delicate situation than both Terry Ryan and Ron Gardenhire. I am currently writing a letter to Carl Pohlad to tell him I have found the cure for all the Twins troubles, prohornblower for GM!

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

wait phb, wtf. liriano is just getting lucky all those starts, he's not a pitcher that knows how to WIN, why should the twins care about his future? he'll just end up blowing up like zach duke, and all those other one hit wonders right?

talk about jumping on the bandwagon...

Re: Francisco Liriano is pitching right now
 

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talk about jumping on the bandwagon...

[/ QUOTE ]

Jumping on the bandwagon? I never said he wasn't a good pitcher, wtf?

I was just trying to tell everyone to stop spilling DNA in their pants about his 2027 HOF induction.

And wear your hat straight, son. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]