[censored] tipping dealers
 

A young man goes into a poker room in vegas. This young man decides to play 3/6 limit poker (bankroll appropriate).

Dealer expects a 2 dollar tip.

This young man is good and makes 1 big bet per hour. The dealer is expecting 1/3 of this young man's hourly rate.

Hence......... [censored] off dealer

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

Dealer can expect whatever the hell he wants. He's either going to get what the young man wants to give him or nothing at all.

One would wonder why that young man is playing live 3/6 in the first place, though. If he's trying to make a living at it, rake and tips will make him -EV... and rake will do that alone if he stiffs the dealers along the way.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

Mody rater noty fied ya'll be sent back to the furum directly.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dealer can expect whatever the hell he wants. He's either going to get what the young man wants to give him or nothing at all.

One would wonder why that young man is playing live 3/6 in the first place, though. If he's trying to make a living at it, rake and tips will make him -EV... and rake will do that alone if he stiffs the dealers along the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

A young man most likely wouldn't be trying to make a living at this type of game. But a young man would likely be learning the game.

Lets pick a different game, lets pick 10/20. 1 big bet an hour playing live is a good winrate, the dealer see's a 200 dollar pot dragged, and expects 3-5 dollars in tip, WTF?

"If he's trying to make a living at it, rake and tips will make him -EV..."

Ya.... thats my point. The dealer expecting something he doesn't deserve severely decreases low stakes live player's winrate/makes them -EV.

Hence the reason I made this post, the idea of tipping a dealer is total B.S.

As for the dealer staring at a player when that player doesn't tip..... seriously, once again, all there is to say is WTF?

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Mody rater noty fied ya'll be sent back to the furum directly.

[/ QUOTE ]

and your age is?

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hence the reason I made this post, the idea of tipping a dealer is total B.S.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi! welcome to my ignore list. So sorry I didn't get the chance to know you better, I only read one post before I decided to place you there.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hence the reason I made this post, the idea of tipping a dealer is total B.S.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi! welcome to my ignore list. So sorry I didn't get the chance to know you better, I only read one post before I decided to place you there.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

And your announcing this because? Gee, lets see, you want an audience/others to join you.

Go [censored] yourself

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

Don't Post About...

#4 should cover it

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't Post About...

#4 should cover it

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, just read that. Ill delete this thread now I guess.

Edit: Well, I guess I can't delete this. Oh well, it will be fun to see other people talk about how tipping the dealer is somehow rational (wtf?).

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

I will be glad when the moderator locks or deletes this thread.

We don't need another flame war over tipping.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
I will be glad when the moderator locks or deletes this thread.

We don't need another flame war over tipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, dude why are you so anal about this? It doesn't need to be a flame war.

Its just highly irrational that dealers should expect tips from players, and I want to see why people think the opposite.

Still, to this day, I have never heard a good case for why the dealer should expect tips (muchless even be considered to get a tip).

Its quite clear that tipping the dealer is a tradition that was established long ago, its like a story that keeps getting passed on and read by the next generation.

Except, no one is quite sure why we tip dealers.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
the dealer see's a 200 dollar pot dragged, and expects 3-5 dollars in tip

[/ QUOTE ]

no they dont, buck a pot is standard

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

If you tip the dealer at a casino, then why don't you tip the person working at the Mcdonalds window who recieves 1/2 the hourly wage that a dealer makes?

The idea of tipping the dealer is one large contradiction.

You decide to go to the casino to play a game where logical decisions win you money, yet when it comes to tipping the dealer, your logic flies out the window.

*Disclaimer* I swear, this isn't a flame war.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
and your age is?

[/ QUOTE ]

Old enough to know better than to make a post in direct opposition to the posting guidlines.

Old enough to not worry about two dollars.

Old enough to play a little higher than 3-6.

Old enough not to describe myself as a young man in a post.

Old enough to recognize an attempt at humour, although this is the B&M forum and I should have known better.

45 on March the 28th of this year, shirt size 3x tall but gift cards preferred.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the dealer see's a 200 dollar pot dragged, and expects 3-5 dollars in tip

[/ QUOTE ]

no they dont, buck a pot is standard

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, thanks for the info/correction.

So a dollar a pot, its typical to win more than 1 pot an hour.....

See what im saying here, its expected that you tip a significant % of your hourly rate.

Beyond that though, why these people? My point is that the dealers expect tips, while many professions that actually contribute something to society don't even get thought of for tipping.

Two extremes here,

Dealer: I expect tips (and i act like a [censored] baby when I don't get them)

Psychologist: I don't get tips, I don't expect tips, I help straighten out peoples lives.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

I agree, I won a $1300 pot the other day and tipped $1. The dealers said thanks and didn't seem pissed at all. Sometimes I'll tip $2 for a huge pot...I doubt dealers expect $5 a hand.

Basically, if you totally stiff dealers and others follow suit, don't complain when all the good dealers bolt and you are stuck with a bunch of tards who could care less about doing a professional job.

Jeff

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
4. Anything that's posted about ad nauseum. For example, tipping, 18+ casinos, how much money to bring to a casino. If you have a basic question, it's probably been asked and answered multiple times in the past. PLEASE USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. I know the search function sucks, but give it a go. Try it multiple times with different search terms/methods, your question is probably in there somewhere. We were all new at some point, but for those that no longer are, it can get tiresome seeing the same posts over and over again. Often, it's the veterans who post the answers you seek, so encourage their participation by not posting the same thread repeteadly.

There will be tolerance for some repetitive stuff. If only 100% new content was allowed, this board would have only 2 or 3 posts per day, and new people would get nothing out of it. Exactly what gets locked and what doesn't will be my discretion, feel free to pm me if you have a question about this.

This list will change/grow/disappear as needed.


Violations of these rules may result in threads being locked, warnings, or bannings as I see fit.



[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, if you like being called dude, like totally read the posting guidelines please.

Any post that starts of with censored in the title and gets censored in the body also is clearly intended to start a flame war.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and your age is?

[/ QUOTE ]

Old enough to know better than to make a post in direct opposition to the posting guidlines.

Old enough to not worry about two dollars.

Old enough to play a little higher than 3-6.

Old enough not to describe myself as a young man in a post.

Old enough to recognize an attempt at humour, although this is the B&M forum and I should have known better.

45 on March the 28th of this year, shirt size 3x tall but gift cards preferred.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol.

Except the two dollar one....... you need to read theory of poker? I don't know, maybe Im the only one that thinks that giving away a significant portion of your earnings to someone for NO reason makes [censored] for sense.

Honestly dude, everytime you go to tip, why don't you pull out a little jar and put that money in it.

Then you can do something useful with that money and give it to a charity, instead of a dealer who wants to act like a [censored] pussy once he doesn't get this tip.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4. Anything that's posted about ad nauseum. For example, tipping, 18+ casinos, how much money to bring to a casino. If you have a basic question, it's probably been asked and answered multiple times in the past. PLEASE USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. I know the search function sucks, but give it a go. Try it multiple times with different search terms/methods, your question is probably in there somewhere. We were all new at some point, but for those that no longer are, it can get tiresome seeing the same posts over and over again. Often, it's the veterans who post the answers you seek, so encourage their participation by not posting the same thread repeteadly.

There will be tolerance for some repetitive stuff. If only 100% new content was allowed, this board would have only 2 or 3 posts per day, and new people would get nothing out of it. Exactly what gets locked and what doesn't will be my discretion, feel free to pm me if you have a question about this.

This list will change/grow/disappear as needed.


Violations of these rules may result in threads being locked, warnings, or bannings as I see fit.



[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, if you like being called dude, like totally read the posting guidelines please.

Any post that starts of with censored in the title and gets censored in the body also is clearly intended to start a flame war.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? Honestly, you may be 45 or whatever, but you nit pick stuff like your the 2nd grade teacher's pet.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, I won a $1300 pot the other day and tipped $1. The dealers said thanks and didn't seem pissed at all. Sometimes I'll tip $2 for a huge pot...I doubt dealers expect $5 a hand.

Basically, if you totally stiff dealers and others follow suit, don't complain when all the good dealers bolt and you are stuck with a bunch of tards who could care less about doing a professional job.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, a logical reason. Jeff fears that he won't have a dealer that acts professional if no one tips them.

However, this would never be the case. Casinos/cardrooms always want their dealers to act professional/be the best they can be.

There isn't going to be a shortage of dealers who don't act like total dumbasses. Face it, they aren't going anywhere.

I can't believe you forgot! Being in a casino is exciting!!!

....and this is exactly why being a dealer in a casino will always be a sought after position.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lol.

Except the two dollar one....... you need to read theory of poker? I don't know, maybe Im the only one that thinks that giving away a significant portion of your earnings to someone for NO reason makes [censored] for sense.

Honestly dude, everytime you go to tip, why don't you pull out a little jar and put that money in it.

Then you can do something useful with that money and give it to a charity, instead of a dealer who wants to act like a [censored] pussy once he doesn't get this tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hate to break it to you buddy, but tipping is +EV. Go back to the Internet, where you can be as big an ass as you want.

Like we need another 3-6 pro,[censored], dealer stiffing, idiot using up bandwidth in the B&M forum. You already have one of the most helpful posters here ignoring your posts, (the artist formerely known as luv2drivett or something like that)and I am next.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

Ok, this is my last post on this thread - I have some work to do. But use your brain for a second. A job where someone can make 40k-60k a year will attract many more hardworking people than one that pays $7 an hour with no tips. In the latter scenario, you get a bunch of people who put in the minimum effort, don't care about making errors, screw around in the box. In the former scenario, where hard work is well compensated, you get people motivated to perform well. The slackers starve. Catch my drift? When I'm playing for money that's significant to me, I want a competant dealer and am willing to pay for it.

Good Luck,
Jeff

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lol, dude why are you so anal about this? It doesn't need to be a flame war.

*Disclaimer* I swear, this isn't a flame war.


And your announcing this because? Gee, lets see, you want an audience/others to join you.

Go [censored] yourself

Dealer: I expect tips (and i act like a [censored] baby when I don't get them)

What are you talking about? Honestly, you may be 45 or whatever, but you nit pick stuff like your the 2nd grade teacher's pet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good job.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lol.

Except the two dollar one....... you need to read theory of poker? I don't know, maybe Im the only one that thinks that giving away a significant portion of your earnings to someone for NO reason makes [censored] for sense.

Honestly dude, everytime you go to tip, why don't you pull out a little jar and put that money in it.

Then you can do something useful with that money and give it to a charity, instead of a dealer who wants to act like a [censored] pussy once he doesn't get this tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hate to break it to you buddy, but tipping is +EV. Go back to the Internet, where you can be as big an ass as you want.

Like we need another 3-6 pro,[censored], dealer stiffing, idiot using up bandwidth in the B&M forum. You already have one of the most helpful posters here ignoring your posts, (the artist formerely known as luv2drivett or something like that)and I am next.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, tipping is clearly not +ev, and I don't think you truly believe that deep down.

Im not trying to be an ass, not at all, that assumption has been processed by your mind because of your failure to face the facts.

Im a dealer stiffing idiot huh? Dude, and ya I said it, Ive never played live!!!

I can be classified as an idiot, but ive never stiffed a dealer, and if you were to classify me as an idiot, you would also have to classify yourself the same.

I have a friend who is a dealer though, thats why I brought this whole issue up.

My friend and I have talked about this topic several times, but I don't seem to remember him getting as bent out of shape as you are.

I already have one of the most helpful posters ignoring me?

Please get a me a tissue.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, this is my last post on this thread - I have some work to do. But use your brain for a second. A job where someone can make 40k-60k a year will attract many more hardworking people than one that pays $7 an hour with no tips. In the latter scenario, you get a bunch of people who put in the minimum effort, don't care about making errors, screw around in the box. In the former scenario, where hard work is well compensated, you get people motivated to perform well. The slackers starve. Catch my drift? When I'm playing for money that's significant to me, I want a competant dealer and am willing to pay for it.

Good Luck,
Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff,

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I caught your drift, im right with you and fully understand what your saying.

But I think that there wouldn't be a shortage of competent dealers if tips were abolished.

The dealer position would be highly desired even without tips. With lots of people going after a profession, the average worker in that profession will be high quality.

Edit: also, casinos understand the impact that a professional dealer has on its customers.

This is why, even without tips, casinos would find a way to keep high quality dealers around (whether they pay a higher wage or not).

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lol, dude why are you so anal about this? It doesn't need to be a flame war.

*Disclaimer* I swear, this isn't a flame war.


And your announcing this because? Gee, lets see, you want an audience/others to join you.

Go [censored] yourself

Dealer: I expect tips (and i act like a [censored] baby when I don't get them)

What are you talking about? Honestly, you may be 45 or whatever, but you nit pick stuff like your the 2nd grade teacher's pet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good job.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would also like to thank you as well.

Good job! You took snippets of things I have said to make it look like I was flaming!

On that note, im to bed.

The only person who wanted to talk about this in a reasonable manner is busy with work.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
A young man goes into a poker room in vegas. This young man decides to play 3/6 limit poker (bankroll appropriate).

Dealer expects a 2 dollar tip.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's an optimistic dealer. Whenever I played in Vegas, seems everyone is making change so they can tip the dealer $.50.

b

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

Ok,

I'll break my last post promise for a second here.

[ QUOTE ]
This is why, even without tips, casinos would find a way to keep high quality dealers around (whether they pay a higher wage or not).

[/ QUOTE ]

Higher wages for dealers would be passed on to customers in the form of higher rakes and time charges. Thus, you will be forced to pay for something that is now discretionary - and you'll be forced to pay this regardless of the quality of service you receive.

If you don't believe what I'm saying, btw, look at a casino like Foxwoods. Here, poker dealers pool tips. So, even the most horrid dealers who get out 8 hands a down are paid the same as the best ones in the house. This doesn't work for the same reason communism didn't work - hard work and talent must be fairly compensated. The system works best as it does now where the best dealers make good money and the worst don't do as well.

Tipping dealers is part of the cost of doing business; I think you'll realize this when/if you move up to bigger games and are playing for important money and/or income. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about - I've played lots of live poker in the last five years.

Jeff

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok,

I'll break my last post promise for a second here.

[ QUOTE ]
This is why, even without tips, casinos would find a way to keep high quality dealers around (whether they pay a higher wage or not).

[/ QUOTE ]

Higher wages for dealers would be passed on to customers in the form of higher rakes and time charges. Thus, you will be forced to pay for something that is now discretionary - and you'll be forced to pay this regardless of the quality of service you receive.

If you don't believe what I'm saying, btw, look at a casino like Foxwoods. Here, poker dealers pool tips. So, even the most horrid dealers who get out 8 hands a down are paid the same as the best ones in the house. This doesn't work for the same reason communism didn't work - hard work and talent must be fairly compensated. The system works best as it does now where the best dealers make good money and the worst don't do as well.

Tipping dealers is part of the cost of doing business; I think you'll realize this when/if you move up to bigger games and are playing for important money and/or income. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about - I've played lots of live poker in the last five years.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, there we go. Thank you.

One more thing though. Casinos can't raise the rake too high (for the obvious reasons, especially with online poker blooming), so if the casinos were put in a situation where they had to pay dealers more, they would be stuck with their back against the wall.

They can't drive out the players that show up everyday.

I do play for a living, but I will never experience live play because I don't see any game there that could offer higher hourly rates than the online games offer.

Thanks for the responses Jeff. Your one of the few I have talked to that actually understand the dynamics of this topic.

Although, I still somewhat disagree, I realize that I have no live game experience, so this is where I have to depend on what you have said.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

***You are ignoring this idiot troll***

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]

If you don't believe what I'm saying, btw, look at a casino like Foxwoods. Here, poker dealers pool tips. So, even the most horrid dealers who get out 8 hands a down are paid the same as the best ones in the house. This doesn't work for the same reason communism didn't work - hard work and talent must be fairly compensated. The system works best as it does now where the best dealers make good money and the worst don't do as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly right, Jeff. Toking is our way of being able to "review" dealers, reward the good ones and let the bad ones know they have to do a better job. I sit in a lot of games that contain dealers who are constantly toking a large amount each pot ($3-$5).

Their purpose is simple, get the table in the mood to tip and hope those in the box come into their house and jack up the toke rate when they are working. It usually works, but I'm sorry, even on monsters in a 6/12 game, they get a buck from me. If a dealer does a good job running the game, they'll get a little more at the end of their down, no matter if I won a pot.

I can say this without exception....dealers who were not happy with my $1 per pot tip, or who hustle trying for more somehow always seem to be the ones who would never deserve anything extra at the end of their down anyway.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
***You are ignoring this idiot troll***

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for reminder!

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh well, it will be fun to see other people talk about how tipping the dealer is somehow rational (wtf?).


[/ QUOTE ]

It is rational because they would make about $4 an hour otherwise.

BTW, if a dealer was expecting $2 per pot at a 3/6 game, I woudn't tip either. In a game that size, about $1 per pot is reasonable for a good dealer, and maybe $.50 per pot for an average one.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh well, it will be fun to see other people talk about how tipping the dealer is somehow rational (wtf?).


[/ QUOTE ]

It is rational because they would make about $4 an hour otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know where you get that number from. My friend makes $12 an hour (give or take a few cents) base pay before tips.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you tip the dealer at a casino, then why don't you tip the person working at the Mcdonalds window who recieves 1/2 the hourly wage that a dealer makes?

[/ QUOTE ]

McDonalds: $6/hour
Dealer: $4/hour

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

You friend is very well paid, then. I believe that isn't very typical. A casino manager came on in here at one point during one of the tipping discussions, and that's where I got my number from.

What casino was this? I might have to apply.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
You friend is very well paid, then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

You're making it sound like casino's are making huge $$$$$$$$$ from their poker rooms, and that normally competitive forces like online competition etc are at work here.

They're not. Slots and table games make SO much more money. That the profit from the poker room is probably a joke in comparison. I don't have numbers at my disposal, /shrug just think about it for a minute.

So if everyone stopped tipping dealers, and casinos had to pay more for dealers that could run a game (remember the efficiency at which a dealer runs a game has a large impact on your $/hour), when the poker room started not to make their revenue goals and soforth, the casino wouldn't be in a crunch because of competition. They would pass the buck to the players.

The point of the poker room is to get players in the casino with lots of money, and make a modest bit off of them while they're not playing table games and slots.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're making it sound like casino's are making huge $$$$$$$$$ from their poker rooms, and that normally competitive forces like online competition etc are at work here.

They're not. Slots and table games make SO much more money. That the profit from the poker room is probably a joke in comparison. I don't have numbers at my disposal, /shrug just think about it for a minute.

So if everyone stopped tipping dealers, and casinos had to pay more for dealers that could run a game (remember the efficiency at which a dealer runs a game has a large impact on your $/hour), when the poker room started not to make their revenue goals and soforth, the casino wouldn't be in a crunch because of competition. They would pass the buck to the players.

The point of the poker room is to get players in the casino with lots of money, and make a modest bit off of them while they're not playing table games and slots.

[/ QUOTE ]
h
Hmm, i didn't mean to sound like that.

I fully acknowledge that the machines are the bread winners for the casino.

Re: [censored] tipping dealers
 

My friend makes $12 an hour

i call BS - you have no friends