I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

This could either go here or in the psychology forum, I think.

After playing about 1 year online, I started to feel bad about certain things. The most important ones were the following:

.- Turning into a hermit that sometimes went 3-4 days without going out of the house (except to get the mail, which doesn't count).
.- Total lack of social interaction (very related to the first one).
.- Feeling sick of playing all the time (sometimes skipping breakfast, etc).

After realizing that I didn't like where this online poker playing experience was taking me, I decided to quit cold turkey and play live.

Now I have a set schedule. I play live cash games Monday-Saturday, and about 3-4 live tournaments a week as well (both in the NL form).

During the mornings, I just relax and do whatever school work is pending, and then in the afternoon (around 6 pm), I drive to the casino and stay there until about 11 pm. I "work" for 5 hours. When the 5 hours are up, I leave. I leave regardless of performance. I could be up $500 or down $500, either way I am out of there after my 5 hours.

So far I have enjoyed this a great deal. Not only has it prevented me from becoming more and more isolated, but I actually enjoy the game much more when it is live.

I like holding real chips and real cards. I like talking to people. I like seeing people play a certain way.

I love all those TELLS. Man, tells are so cool when you're live. Of course everyone will say that there are online tells as well. I agree, especially when it comes to betting tells. But you just can't compare it with the number of tells that you find live.

Well gentlemen, I just wrote this in case someone was thinking of making the transition or has already made it.

Note : In no way, shape, or form am I criticizing online play or online players. I am 100% against any type of online poker ban. I support the right for people to play online poker whenever they want.

I just prefer live poker.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

Me Too.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

Said it before and will say it again:

Live poker always has been, and always will be, vastly superior to online poker. Period.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

When that stupid Washington law banning on-line poker was passed, I was liberated. When I played on-line, I was a recluse; ignoring loved ones and being isolated. Now, instead of playing on-line almost every night, I play live a few times a week. It is much better. My relationship with my spouse has improved. I’ve read more books (poker related and otherwise). Playing live is simply more fun, not to mention more profitable. So, those of you who are bemoaning the illegalization of on-line poker, I say get out of the house and enjoy some ‘real live’ poker. The 3/6 and 4/8 games down the street at the local B&M is just as soft as the .50/$1 game at Party Poker.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

I gave up playing online about a year ago for some of the reasons that you listed but mostly because I do much better live than online. For me they are almost completely different games. I know how the regulars at my casino play and I get to know a stranger in a half-hour or so. The difference in my bottom line is huge.

I understand why you mentioned that maybe this belonged in the psych. forum. When I was only playing online I realized that I was becoming some weird, recluse, hermit type. And I couldn't sleep knowing that I could be playing instead. That is compulsive behavior, sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if alot of online players suffer from the same symptoms.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

I've also found that I don't go on tilt as easily while playing live because I don't want to embarass myself in public. When online, I'd scream and cuss and punch something, and end up playing worse because of it. I'm a lot more calm when playing live, and as a result end up enjoying the game more.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
When that stupid Washington law banning on-line poker was passed, I was liberated. When I played on-line, I was a recluse; ignoring loved ones and being isolated. Now, instead of playing on-line almost every night, I play live a few times a week. It is much better. My relationship with my spouse has improved. I’ve read more books (poker related and otherwise). Playing live is simply more fun, not to mention more profitable. So, those of you who are bemoaning the illegalization of on-line poker, I say get out of the house and enjoy some ‘real live’ poker. The 3/6 and 4/8 games down the street at the local B&M is just as soft as the .50/$1 game at Party Poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that playing live is much more fun, but it is definately not more profitable. The number of tables and speed of play more than make up for the lack of live tells. Thus, there is less risk in online play as you can play more tables of a lower limit and reduce variance. Your expected 6-8 tabling $5/10 online is about equal to $50/100 live (not to mention $50/100 is no cakewalk).

Although online poker may not be as interesting, it is the only option for many people who don't live near a casino, and it brings many new players into the cardroom who never would have even tried poker if it wasn't for online.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

i play live only, mainly cuz i sit in front of a computer for 60-80 hours a week already and the thought of going from working on my work comp to working on my home comp makes me sad...and im in love with a dealer at my bm casino [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Said it before and will say it again:

Live poker always has been, and always will be, vastly superior to online poker. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]
...especially in the Venetian.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

I want to make the transistion.

I started playing online seriously about 6 months ago and learned to beat the limit micros. I told myself when I hit a certain goal I would reasses my goals and do one of several things:

* become a tourney player and specialize in MTTs
* Learn NL and work my up from the micros in that game
* keep perfecting my limit game, build a BR, and keep moving up in levels
* learn to play live

Well, live play sounded like the most fun so I figured to go that way. Its not going so well. In my first few forays into B&M play I'm down over 50BBs. I can't find a home game in a major urban area. And because of the ease of online play I find myself playing there most often anyway. Maybe I'll institute a "poker night" or something and try to get out once a week.

Any pointers on moving into live play?

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

Kurt,

I would say stick with it. If by a "few" B&M sessions, you mean three, then that means you lost 16-17 BBs each session, which isn't too bad. That's especially true if you're playing low-limit, where the rake can be tough to overcome and which is considered no fold'em hold'em.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, those of you who are bemoaning the illegalization of on-line poker, I say get out of the house and enjoy some ‘real live’ poker. The 3/6 and 4/8 games down the street at the local B&M is just as soft as the .50/$1 game at Party Poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize how many people don't have a B&M "down the street"?

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

I have exactly the opposite experience, thoughts and reactions compared to the rest of you.

For years I only played live. I figured that the relatively loose games were profitable enough to avoid the generally tougher play found online. That online rake is still relatively high was a barrier as well.

Since a certain rake free site opened in April, I figured I couldn't possibly justify passing up that sort of cost structure and have played nearly 100% of hands online since.

People:
While there are certainly some decent, pleasant people who play in cardrooms, I have little tolerance for the population of gamblers, drunks, loudmouths, people who smell bad, angle shooters or smarmy young punks. I have no problem taking their money, but get no upside from the human interaction. I've made a grand total of zero friends in cardrooms and have no plans to move that number higher.

Turning into a Hermit:

Online I play when I want, what I want and against whom I choose (within reason). When playing live, there was travel time, the wait for a seat and generally slow play. Middle limit hold 'em is gradually getting snuffed by no limit and game choices can get somewhat thin. When finding a good game, I found it hard to leave. If ahead I wanted to milk it. If behind, the competitor in me had a very hard time ever leaving when down. I can think of several 20+ hour sessions driven by my psychological need not to loose money to bad players. Online, I don't card. I'll play twenty minutes or all day. Up, down or flat, its all the same, just on long, neverending game, always available and never a wait. I have a great deal more free time now that I've cut the cardroom out of my life.

Tilt:

I'm pretty good about tilt. I don't give in to it easily and don't show it live very much. However, I frequently seethed live at the outrageous suckouts, especially when loosing. At times it affected my play. I can still remember nearly all of the biggest, most absurd examples, even years later. For reasons which are not clear, I could care less when it happens online. There's another hand coming, in fact, I might be playing a couple other hands at the time, and I don't really care.

Pace:

My tolerance for all the silliness that slows up live play has shrunk. The deck changes, theatrics, inattention, etc. make live play tough to take. That I'm only seeing 30-35 hands an hour makes live play a true grind. There's no IWTSTH online, just hand after hand after hand, each one of which is a potential earner.

Cost:

One local cardroom has gone to a $5 rake for LHE. Tips are typically $2 or more. Even low level NL games are dragged for time charges of $6 a half hour. I'm playing poker for purposes of income. Rakes and cost structures like this turn live play into something similar to a casino game and make the lower limits extrodinarily hard to beat for any decent sort of earn. Rake and tips are the toughest opponent in any cardroom. Freeing myself of this parasitic relationship is very liberating.

Spousal and familial relations:

Playing from the comfort of my own home means a lot less hours playing and a great deal more hands played. I used to put the kids to bed at 9pm and then slink off to a cardroom, often playing until about the time when they'd be getting up. That took a real toll. The flexibilty of online play means more hours with my family and absolutely no time out of the house. The wife is much happier and the kids get a better rested daddy.

Versatility:

On any given day, I may be playing online LHE from limits anywhere from 3/6 to 30/60. I may play some NL. I'll probabably mix in some O8B. I've played dozens of tournies in the past few months, including some nice wins. I've even dabbled in stud. I've played tens of thousands of hands of cards in the past couple of months and have a large portion of them locked up in Poker Tracker. It would've taken me years to get the same experience. I can now meticulously review my play and figure out where things are going well and badly. I have hard facts and figures to study not just fuzzy memories.

Miscellany:

About the only thing I miss are the advantage from good tell reading ability. I put a lot of time and effort into watching for tells and learning what they mean. That goes to waste now. I also miss some of the food at certain spots, but that's about it.

I don't miss the cardroom and am surprised more players don't feel the same way.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

If you play NL you need to play nano limit games to get a feel for what 1/2 or 2/5 will play like. Most online games I never call AQ cold or reraise AQ suited unless I know the player is a total moron. Live you have assume the player is or you will be throwing away alot of premium hands for fear of domination. Also players have no conception of pot odds and the like so forcing a flush drawer all in the flop won't get folds. If you play limit anything below mid stakes you will need to play the micro full games or looser low limit sites without much traffic as these days most 2/4 or 3/6 games play as tough as 20/40 or higher. Waiting lists also can take forever and food costs are much higher too. The only benefit of live play is that you can make much more money easily at a stake that is nearly impossible for an okay player to beat online.... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

http://media.movieweb.com/news/dvd_b...hi/65/1165.jpg

[ QUOTE ]
The world don't move
to the beat of just one drum.
What might be right for you,
may not be right for some.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://media.movieweb.com/news/dvd_b...hi/65/1165.jpg



[/ QUOTE ]

...forgot to mention, I don't have to worry about Todd Bridges trying to rob me in the parking lot, Dana Plato trolling for a "date" or watch Gary Coleman try to roust her.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]

You realize how many people don't have a B&M "down the street"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a 40 table poker room 4 blocks away from my home. Doesn't everyone?

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
The 3/6 and 4/8 games down the street at the local B&M is just as soft as the .50/$1 game at Party Poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Softer.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The 3/6 and 4/8 games down the street at the local B&M is just as soft as the .50/$1 game at Party Poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Softer.

[/ QUOTE ]

MUCH softer. The online players who have never played b&m probably wouldn't believe it w/o seeing it.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Said it before and will say it again:

Live poker always has been, and always will be, vastly superior to online poker. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have to go with LVM on this one 100%. The only time I play online is when I'm drinking at home, or before I go to work. And after 15-30 minutes, I'm bored to death.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

are from rowland heights?

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

i moved down to AC to play live, but have switched to mostly online. I play NL though, live NL games arent worth it unless im playing 2/5NL or up which i dont have the BR for. I make more online per hour multi-tabling 50NL than I do playing 1/2 NL live.

Theres too much variance in live poker, and you dont get the experience from the number of hands you could be playing online. As you move up limits online your live game will probably be better as well.

Tells are overrated. If you know how to use a HUD really well, you will earn more money from it than live tells.

People in poker rooms are annoying. A lot of them smell, are degenerates, and are just not pleasant to be around. If you need to "socialize" when you play call some of your friends over for low limit home game and donk it up.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Said it before and will say it again:

Live poker always has been, and always will be, vastly superior to online poker. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure a lot of poker players (myself included) enjoy playing live more than online, but online is so much more profitable.

If I could possibly have the same winrate as I do playing online compared to playing live, I would choose playing live.

Also, if there weren't so many douchebags in the cardrooms I would play more than once a week.

and I don't see how anyone could prefer trying to stare down someone across the table and put them on a hand because their nostrils flared instead of using pahud. I only play limit anyway so I don't even really look for tells when I play live unless it's REALLY obvious.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

See there's the age old debate: 300 hands an hour, 3 dollar rake. Rake back. Vs ultra loose play, easily beatable opponents, and the opportunity to concentrate on each hand.

Or: Rock garden with limits so low that it's impossible to move up, no real conversation, a bunch of people who aren't paying any attention to what you're doing, vs. A room with rake amounting to a big bet in the largest pots. Dealers with rent-a-smiles depending on how much you take out of your stack to toke them, and housemen who don't apply the rules consistently... sigh, I miss 2003.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

I used to play 2-4 and 3-6 LHE online but I found the games to be so tight that I only play live LHE now. I will play O8B and hold em tournaments online, but the cash games have become complete rock gardens. I'd rather go to Foxwoods and play a game where 5-6 players (at the least) see every flop and will call you down with middle pair than sit at a 2-4 Party Poker table where everybody seems like they've read Sklansky cover to cover.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

I started out with online, then live, then back to online.

I got my feet wet again after many years of not playing online. Then moved to the live realm, fine tuned my skills, and have moved back to online for a number of reasons.

1) There are only a few private games in my area that offer NL at the stakes I want to play at. There is no NL in the B&M in my state.

2) I can play 300-400 hands an hour online, get rake back and still hold an edge over most of the players I am against.

3) I can find a good game just about anytime I want. I am lucky to get into a private game once a month that is worth playing in.

I still consider myself a much better live player than online and if I lived in LV or LA, where I would have decent/good game selection available most of the time, I would book a lot more live hours, but it is hard to compare 300-400 hands an hour versus 20-30 live...

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

Just so one thing is clear, spending all your time in the cardroom doesn't make you any less of a hermit than spending all of your time at home. I hope your new routine includes some non-poker activities, as well.

-McGee

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Theres too much variance in live poker

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you're not playing high enough, where they respect your raises and don't suck out on you.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

I think Colima does have a point here. However, addiction is addiction no matter where it occurs. Anytime I go to my local cardroom at least thirty percent of the patrons are the same degenerates I see there everytime I play. They are always playing badly (good for me), usually tilting (also good for me), and rarely bathing (bad for me). Although I do enjoy turning a long term profit off of these people and I most certainly enjoy the freak show of gambling junkies, pimps, and career criminals, having so many hard core addicts living in the same community where I raise my children can't be a good thing.

Addiction of any kind sucks big time. Get your life under control so the rest of us don't have to pay for it in one way or another.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think Colima does have a point here. However, addiction is addiction no matter where it occurs. Anytime I go to my local cardroom at least thirty percent of the patrons are the same degenerates I see there everytime I play. They are always playing badly (good for me), usually tilting (also good for me), and rarely bathing (bad for me). Although I do enjoy turning a long term profit off of these people and I most certainly enjoy the freak show of gambling junkies, pimps, and career criminals, having so many hard core addicts living in the same community where I raise my children can't be a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I ask where you play? I didn't know South Central LA had a poker room?

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Colima does have a point here. However, addiction is addiction no matter where it occurs. Anytime I go to my local cardroom at least thirty percent of the patrons are the same degenerates I see there everytime I play. They are always playing badly (good for me), usually tilting (also good for me), and rarely bathing (bad for me). Although I do enjoy turning a long term profit off of these people and I most certainly enjoy the freak show of gambling junkies, pimps, and career criminals, having so many hard core addicts living in the same community where I raise my children can't be a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I ask where you play? I didn't know South Central LA had a poker room?

[/ QUOTE ]

Club One in Fresno. Just imagine south central with worse weather and fewer jobs and you've got Fresno.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

Ok, I'm familiar with Fresno. Not exactly a garden spot. At least being in the cardroom is safer than breathing the toxic air outside.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
i play live only, mainly cuz i sit in front of a computer for 60-80 hours a week already and the thought of going from working on my work comp to working on my home comp makes me sad...and im in love with a dealer at my bm casino [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here. I love live poker!

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
are from rowland heights?

[/ QUOTE ]


No. I live in New Mexico

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just so one thing is clear, spending all your time in the cardroom doesn't make you any less of a hermit than spending all of your time at home. I hope your new routine includes some non-poker activities, as well.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your statement. However, I do not spend all of my time in the cardroom. As mentiones in the OP, I am only there about 5 hours per day. The rest of the time I do other stuff that have nothing to do with poker.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Colima does have a point here. However, addiction is addiction no matter where it occurs. Anytime I go to my local cardroom at least thirty percent of the patrons are the same degenerates I see there everytime I play. They are always playing badly (good for me), usually tilting (also good for me), and rarely bathing (bad for me). Although I do enjoy turning a long term profit off of these people and I most certainly enjoy the freak show of gambling junkies, pimps, and career criminals, having so many hard core addicts living in the same community where I raise my children can't be a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I ask where you play? I didn't know South Central LA had a poker room?

[/ QUOTE ]

You kidding? Crystal Park, Hustler, Normandie are all in south central LA. Hollywood Park is right next door.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

I play online a ton. I recently went to the Casino for my 4th time and pkayed for 13 and a half hours. I loved it and am going back this weekend. Its an hour or 2 hour friv depending where Im at so its not really that close unfortunatly.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
i moved down to AC to play live, but have switched to mostly online. I play NL though, live NL games arent worth it unless im playing 2/5NL or up which i dont have the BR for. I make more online per hour multi-tabling 50NL than I do playing 1/2 NL live.

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You went through the trouble to move to AC in order to play poker but you don't have the BR for 2/5???

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Theres way more action in live poker

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP
[ QUOTE ]

People in poker rooms are annoying. A lot of them smell, are degenerates, and are just not pleasant to be around. If you need to "socialize" when you play call some of your friends over for low limit home game and donk it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

True... Earlier today I picked up and left an EXTREMELY juicy 10/20NL game at the commerce because the guy sitting to my left had absolutely unbearable BO. Although I have met some good people at the poker tables who I would actually consider hanging out with under normal circumstances.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

Great description of Fresno. And, totally accurate. I lived in that area for 30 years and now I'm hard pressed to go home to visit my mother, who I love very much, because it sucks so bad.

All the casino's in LA are in real garden spots. Driven the streets of Commerce lately? How about Inglewood? Gardena is a real prime baller spot. And Hawaiian Gardens, phew, awesome!

There ain't no card club in Beverly Hills.

Re: I have quit online poker and specialized in live play (semi-long)
 

[ QUOTE ]


True... Earlier today I picked up and left an EXTREMELY juicy 10/20NL game at the commerce because the guy sitting to my left had absolutely unbearable BO. Although I have met some good people at the poker tables who I would actually consider hanging out with under normal circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, so bad a seat change wouldn't fix it?