Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

My provisional list of overrated poker players:

1.) Evelyn Ng:
Does Ms. Ng really play the game? Man, I've not seen her cash or win or do anything in poker. Other than play in that six-woman invitational tourney, I can't recall her earning any of the fame she deserves. I'm not necessarily saying she stinks at poker, but just seemingly overrated and hyped...Any thoughts?

2.) Antonio Esfandiari:
Ok ok, I know I'm gonna hear it for this one, but I think he's slightly overrated. He played amazing in his WPT win a few years ago and has come out with a no-limit holdem cash game book recently, but I don't think of him as an elite player - either in cash games or tourneys. His style is very dangerous, as are most loose-aggressive types, but I think his fame/celeb status precedes him a bit more than his actual skill. Mostly, I just don't think he's proven himself consistently yet. I'd like to see him in five more years of poker play. Anyone can win at poker for a couple of years and start thinking they're one of the best. I just feel he's over-marketed for what he's done. The other thing that bothers me about him is his cockiness and to-the-extreme, self-indulgent lifestyle that he brags about to the poker media (but that's a whole other topic).

3.) Tuan Le
Again, I think this might draw some criticism, but I don't think Tuan is a good poker player. He's dangerous yes, but not good in my opinion. His all or nothing approach is one that may work well in the short run, but won't be successful in poker over many years. I just don't think he has a slow gear, nor does he accurately size up his opponent's hands for a risk vs. reward analysis. His aggression does not seem controlled or strategic, but rather a bull-dozer, run-you-over style. He's been successful yes, but I just think his skill is overrated. Nevertheless, I always think it's entertaining to watch him play.

In general, I just don't think these players have proven themselves over time (as many of the older pros have) and seem to have an enormous fan base and celeb status that does not match their true abilities.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

I concur with #1, Evelyn doesn't seem as good as what her publicist tells us

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Daniel Negreanu
Scotty Nguyen
Phil Laak

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

1. Jeniffer Tily
2. James woods
3. Evelyn NG
4. Antonio Esfandiari
5. David Willaims
6. Annie Duke

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

I completely agree with Evelyn Ng, but strongly disagree with Antonio and Tuan. Both are excellent agressive players.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

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1. Jeniffer Tily--she's a better tournament player than she is probably credited for. Not elite, but good.
2. James woods--who rates him high?
3. Evelyn NG--agreed
4. Antonio Esfandiari--i used to think so and i don't care for the way he portrays himself and some of the stuff he says at the table, but his style works decent in tournaments and his cash game play on HSP was appropriately very different and i think fairly good.
5. David Willaims--agreed
6. Annie Duke--never seen her play in a cash game. she seems like a good tournament player but probably not elite. is she rated as elite?

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Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Evelyn Ng- dont really even understand why she gets any attention.

daniel negreanu- ran really well, everyone though/thinks hes the best player in the world, has a huge following at his FCP site. obviously a very good player but i think he lacks the self control to succeed at the highest level.

eli elezra- he may not be very highly rated anyways but after watching hsp it seems to me like he would be a huge donator in the biggest cash games.

mike matusow- pretty much only when it comes to omaha8/b. for some reason everyone seems to believe he is the best o8 player in the world, but i really dont think its true.

sam farha- i think hes a big loser in cash games


this thread seems more fitting in the NVG forum.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

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sam farha- i think hes a big loser in cash games


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Except that he is destroying every PLO-game..

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

David Williams:
I actually think he's pretty decent. His aggressive style is not that much different from Antonio or Tuan, who I mentioned earlier.

The reason I didn't list him is that I don't think he's overhyped, but instead is rated just about right. He's a very good player, but not an elite caliber player. He's definitely not as hyped as Antonio in my opinion...

Eli Elezra:
I don't think he's actually hyped up that much, so I don't feel he can be considered overrated. From what I know and have seen, he's a DOMINANT short-handed player - whether in tourneys or cash games. In ring games, however, he often plays too loose and without patience. His hand selection for ring games is pretty awful from what I've seen. But I think he's a capable player, who is always a threat in the Big Game at Bellagio (contrary to what ppl have posted about him). ...Again, though, his media persona/coverage is not that hyped...

back to Antonio:
I dunno....I'm a bit undecided about him. I never said he was a bad player, just that he was overrated. I think there are tons of loose aggressives like him out there, who can be VERY dangerous to win a tourney and then fizzle out a few years later. I just think the enormous proportion of media coverage a player like him can get is a bit out of line with what he's done and how good he is...Again, I'd like to see him five years from now.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Eli Elezra is the biggest donkey on high stakes poker.

Yeah buddy keep cold-calling 3-bets preflop with KJo out of position and check raising on Jxx boards so all worse hands fold and all better hands stack you.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Annie Duke overrates herself. She has been calling herself the "Best Female Poker Player"(which probably isn't true), yet on ESPN refused to play the ladies event because she claimed that there shouldn't be genders in poker.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

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Annie Duke overrates herself. She has been calling herself the "Best Female Poker Player"(which probably isn't true), yet on ESPN refused to play the ladies event because she claimed that there shouldn't be genders in poker.

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If both statements are true, this is hilarious.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

I used to think Phil Laak and Antonio were overrated, but seeing them on HSP they're actually pretty good.

Overrated : pretty much anyone who's won a big tourney, since they'll get "rated" far more than they deserve for the win, which is 99% luck. Agree with Daniel N, Scotty, also Gus Hansen, Carlos Mortensen, Alan Goehring, Joe Hachem, etc.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

I don't think Antonio is overrated. He plays very few tourneys compared to most other pros, yet he still has some really nice results. Actually, he said recently in an article that he doesn't play much poker anymore at all these days, cash games or otherwise.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Men "The Master" Nguyen

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Scotty Nguyen, Phil Laak, Jennifer Tilly, Annie Duke

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

i agree with all of CaseS87s people

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Pretty much anyone who's ever appeared on TV for tournament-related reasons

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I used to think Phil Laak and Antonio were overrated, but seeing them on HSP they're actually pretty good.

Overrated : pretty much anyone who's won a big tourney, since they'll get "rated" far more than they deserve for the win, which is 99% luck. Agree with Daniel N, Scotty, also Gus Hansen, Carlos Mortensen, Alan Goehring, Joe Hachem, etc.

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So people consistently cashing and having big results in tournaments is 99% luck?

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

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Pretty much anyone who's ever appeared on TV for tournament-related reasons

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So is your final table gonna be fon ESPN? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

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I used to think Phil Laak and Antonio were overrated, but seeing them on HSP they're actually pretty good.

Overrated : pretty much anyone who's won a big tourney, since they'll get "rated" far more than they deserve for the win, which is 99% luck. Agree with Daniel N, Scotty, also Gus Hansen, Carlos Mortensen, Alan Goehring, Joe Hachem, etc.

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I don't get it, winning a tournament counts for nothing but watching them play a couple dozen hands at a cash game allows you to properly evaluate their performance?

In game with large variance factor (such as poker) I think it's a mistake to let any single performance influence your opinion of a player.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Over rated - jennifer harmon, howard lederer, chris moneymaker, fossilman, the grinder

not over rated - phil helmuth, daniel negraneau, doyle brunson and son, ted forrest, chip reese, allen cunningham, johhny chan, the mouth. all excellent players in either tourns or cash games.

great players with great table disposition - ted forrest. no one else is close.

and doesn't matter if they are overated - jennifer tilly, evyln ng, Cyndy Violette. All beautiful women and ok players, but not great. but who cares.

most underated players - Kathy Liebert (she deserves much more respect). best female player.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Annie Duke is easily the most overrated.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Iamastud,

How can Jennifer Harman be overrated?

Sometimes an issue is incredibly simple: Spread a HUGE cash game. Let everybody know it is there. If you think you are the best, then come and play. Anyone with the guts and the bankroll is welcome. She plays. She has for years. LOTS of top players don't. What else does she need to prove?

Almost all poker players play at the highest stakes they can afford based on their skill. She plays in the biggest game in the world.

Listing her as overrated is insulting, IMO.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Evelyn Ng, as best I can tell her only major poker accomplishments are being a hot asian chick and knowing how to do fancy chip tricks.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

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Evelyn Ng, as best I can tell her only major poker accomplishments are being a hot asian chick and knowing how to do fancy chip tricks.

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hey, she made a WPT Ladies Night final table!

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Pretty much anyone who's ever appeared on TV for tournament-related reasons

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So is your final table gonna be fon ESPN? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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No. But if it did, I would probably be overrated if I won, except for the people who thought I was a lucky joke. Then again, that's kind of how it is now

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Why is Jeniffer Tilly #1? I don't think anyone has rated her in the first place, everybody knows why is she famous and gets on TV on poker related shows. She's hot, (was) a famous actress and that's that. I think the biggest compliment that she has ever gotten was that she is a competent player, and I do agree with that. So she's not overrated at all, and you can't blame her for wanting as much TV coverage as possible.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

Whoa whoa whoa buddy, slow down, ALan Goehring, Hachem overrated? That's a little much. Goehring cleared like $5 million in tourney winnings and is one of the winniest players on the WPT. He has shown that over and over again.

Hachem is no fluke, he's a very good poker player with strong results at this year's WSOP.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

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great players with great table disposition - ted forrest. no one else is close.

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Ivey?

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

if you can make millions playing poker, its pretty hard to be overrated to me, scotty, daniel, goehring..ect, if thats the case, i wish i was overrated

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

the stupidest comment so far has been the guy who said Jennifer Harman was overrated. She's a big winner in the biggest cash games in the world and she has good tournament results. In fact, she's underrated: she isn't universally known as the best woman player in the world, when she's leaps and bounds above any other woman player.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

2 words - Clonie Gowen

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
the stupidest comment so far has been the guy who said Jennifer Harman was overrated. She's a big winner in the biggest cash games in the world and she has good tournament results. In fact, she's underrated: she isn't universally known as the best woman player in the world, when she's leaps and bounds above any other woman player.

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you are right that she may be underrated, but what evidence do you have that says shes a "big" winner in the big game?

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

In what i have seen on TV, she is not an active player in either tourns or cash games. she lays back too much playing too few hands which is not usually consistant with many of the top players. She appears too weak a player.

and while not related to her play, i still cannot get out of my head the fit she had at the wsop main even last year when her opponent toyed with her and beat her with a strt flush.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

I had forgotten all about ivy when i made my initial post, howcver, i have seen him get a little steamed at time also, whereas i have not seen Forrest get steamed regardless of what happens.

I would also put ivy in the overated players, even though he is a great player becasue he is made out to be a god from olympus. he is tops, maybe even best, but they have made more out of him than is justified. thus he is great and maybe the best, but is overated, nonetheless.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

David Sklansky

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

I have very little to back this up but I'll throw it out there. What has Mike Caro done that couldn't be done by anyone with a degree in mathematics? I could be way off base but as far as I know he hasn't done as much for the game as it seems, and he hasn't had very good results in anything I've seen.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

As for his writings and teachings, he has had a big influence in the game. as a player, i think he was once a top 5 draw player. as for current tourns, it doesn't appear that he plays much anymore. i don;t see him as being overated. he has been a teacher to us all.

Re: Who Are The Most Overrated Poker Players? (and Why?)
 

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Over rated - jennifer harmon, howard lederer,

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rofl