Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

25NL 6-Max
Blinds .25/.25

Hero: $27.50
UTG2: $14.75
CO (villian): $34
Button: $8.40
SB: $24
BB: 13.70

I was only playing for about 20 minutes at this table, but I thought I had a decent read on villian. Almost every time he entered a pot, he would open for $1 - no fluxuation there. He showed down T7os once, after raising the $1 PF. I also notice his stack go from $24 to $57 and then all the way back down to $28 at one point.

Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero (first to act) calls .25 (I would never limp here unless I was 99% sure a raise was coming), UTG2 calls .25, villian raises to $1 (shocking), Button calls $1, SB folds, BB folds, Hero raises to $4, UTG2 folds, villian raises to $12, Button folds, Hero ???

I'll stop there.
Up until the reraise, my limp/raise plan was working perfectly - villian predictably raise the $1 and I thought I caught the Button in the play as well. I was OOP and would have been content to take it down PF. Any comments are appreciated.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
25NL 6-Max
Blinds .25/.25

Hero: $27.50
UTG2: $14.75
CO (villian): $34
Button: $8.40
SB: $24
BB: 13.70

I was only playing for about 20 minutes at this table, but I thought I had a decent read on villian. Almost every time he entered a pot, he would open for $1 - no fluxuation there. He showed down T7os once, after raising the $1 PF. I also notice his stack go from $24 to $57 and then all the way back down to $28 at one point.

Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero (first to act) calls .25 (I would never limp here unless I was 99% sure a raise was coming), UTG2 calls .25, villian raises to $1 (shocking), Button calls $1, SB folds, BB folds, Hero raises to $4, UTG2 folds, villian raises to $12, Button folds, Hero ???

I'll stop there.
Up until the reraise, my limp/raise plan was working perfectly - villian predictably raise the $1 and I thought I caught the Button in the play as well. I was OOP and would have been content to take it down PF. Any comments are appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villian may not like you trying to trump his steal attempt. I would call his raise and then being first to act on the flop, if no A or K comes, go all-in. You are only beat by AA,KK.
I'm new at this so may be bad advice.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

Oops

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

push?

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oops

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Exactly.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

Whenever, I have made this kind of play with QQ - which is definitely towards the foolish end of the spectrum - I have pushed and I have regretted it.

I'm no math guy but I don't think you are getting odds for set -so it's either push or fold.

You have made a pretty strong play at these stakes, you have limped and re-raised which is invariably a pretty strong/very strong hand - villian prolly knows that. Villian has told you to bring it on... I fold because I've been burnt too often.

It's your read though, if villian can do this with <QQ then push.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

I don't like the limp. QQ is strong enough to lead out with shorthanded UTG I'd think. I'd bet out early rather than try to get tricky. Your plan might have also misfired if no one raised and suddenly, you got to a flop and saw an A or K. If you led out, you might have gotten a call, not a raise and could more sensibly assess the flop.

As played, I think I push here. At least give yourself the chance at five cards or a fold by villain. Calling might be trouble if A or K is on the flop.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
25NL 6-Max
Blinds .25/.25

Hero: $27.50
UTG2: $14.75
CO (villian): $34
Button: $8.40
SB: $24
BB: 13.70

I was only playing for about 20 minutes at this table, but I thought I had a decent read on villian. Almost every time he entered a pot, he would open for $1 - no fluxuation there. He showed down T7os once, after raising the $1 PF. I also notice his stack go from $24 to $57 and then all the way back down to $28 at one point.

Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero (first to act) calls .25 (I would never limp here unless I was 99% sure a raise was coming), UTG2 calls .25, villian raises to $1 (shocking), Button calls $1, SB folds, BB folds, Hero raises to $4, UTG2 folds, villian raises to $12, Button folds, Hero ???

I'll stop there.
Up until the reraise, my limp/raise plan was working perfectly - villian predictably raise the $1 and I thought I caught the Button in the play as well. I was OOP and would have been content to take it down PF. Any comments are appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've represented Aces with your limp-raise, villain isn't worried about that. Do you need to know more?

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have made a pretty strong play at these stakes, you have limped and re-raised which is invariably a pretty strong/very strong hand - villian prolly knows that.

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I guess I didn't give him that much credit. I did push, btw. I guess I thought that if I went this far, I might as well go to the felt with it. If I called, I would have half my nearly stack in there already. I figured his range to be any big Ace or any medium to big pocket pair. I thought I had a lot of his range beat.

I really liked my play up until this point. But this reraise caught me off-guard. I guess I was thinking that a fold was not an option - was I wrong there? Should I have actually folded this given the betting going on? I guess in hindsight, a call and re-evaluation would have been a more careful play (although in this particular case, that T96 rainbow flop would have had me getting it all in there anyway).

It's just tough for a newb like me - it seems a good case can be made for a call, push, or fold.

Call: I can re-evaluate the flop and an A or K will give me a reason to fold.
Push: There are only two possible holdings that I am not ahead of, seems like a good spot to get it all in.
Fold: If he is smart, he saw the strength of my play and is still unafraid. Yikes. Cut my losses at $4.25 and get the hell outta this hand.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

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You've represented Aces with your limp-raise, villain isn't worried about that. Do you need to know more?

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True, it's a little more clear to me now, a day later. But on the other hand, should I always just assume that every player at this small level can recognize the strength of the play I made? I've seen some pretty awful hands being hugely overplayed at this level.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the limp. QQ is strong enough to lead out with shorthanded UTG I'd think. I'd bet out early rather than try to get tricky. Your plan might have also misfired if no one raised and suddenly, you got to a flop and saw an A or K.

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Yeah, I was aware of that risk, and if I wasn't VERY confident of the impending raise, I would have never done it.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

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You've represented Aces with your limp-raise, villain isn't worried about that. Do you need to know more?

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True, it's a little more clear to me now, a day later. But on the other hand, should I always just assume that every player at this small level can recognize the strength of the play I made? I've seen some pretty awful hands being hugely overplayed at this level.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are players who can have anything here, you generally know who they are within ten hands. If he is one of these call, otherwise dump it.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

I don't see why a push is at all a losing proposition here. Villian seems like a new player (many pros will tell a newb to bet the same amount everytime to avoid bet tells), and I would read him for an AK-A10 in his range for a call.

You've got two hands that will beat you, KK and AA right out of the gates. But I think the frequency of him having those hands vs. something in the AK-A10 range is slim enough that a push is justified. I'm pretty sure he will call the push, just being who he is.




Follow [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

I think you played it well given your observation of his play. If he had AA or KK so be it. I'm assuming you lost the hand but that doesn't mean you played it poorly. Also, I don't think putting 45% of your stack in the pot preflop and folding to a scare card is the best move. Maybe if you had position.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

Well, I guess the results are somewhat obvious by now, so I will post them...

Villian calls the push
Villian shows A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Villians wins of pot of $all-my-chips

I threw up a little bit in my mouth when I saw his Aces. Not because it was an astronomical pot, but because I am in the middle of my worst downswing yet, and that pot would have given me a nice profit and some much needed confidence.

That said, I still don't feel entirely bad about the way I played it. I still like my limp/reraise there, given the read I had on this villian. But I've got a lot to learn still, so thanks for the thoughts on this hand. I appreciate it.

Sidenote: I opened a second table after this hand, and within 6-7 hands on the two tables, I was dealt KK, AA, QQ, and AKs with a flopped nut-flush. With the help of this mini-heater, I ended up breaking about even for the night. Sad when a breakeven night is a brag post, ain't it?

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see why a push is at all a losing proposition here. Villian seems like a new player (many pros will tell a newb to bet the same amount everytime to avoid bet tells), and I would read him for an AK-A10 in his range for a call.

You've got two hands that will beat you, KK and AA right out of the gates. But I think the frequency of him having those hands vs. something in the AK-A10 range is slim enough that a push is justified. I'm pretty sure he will call the push, just being who he is.




Follow [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

A push here is bad, trust me. badbadbad.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

All the more reason to remember the dangers of playing OOP. You get stuck in tricky situations like this when your options seem to shrink...

And yeah, sometimes a break-even night can feel like a great accomplishment after digging a deep hole early... Been there plenty of times...

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see why a push is at all a losing proposition here. Villian seems like a new player (many pros will tell a newb to bet the same amount everytime to avoid bet tells), and I would read him for an AK-A10 in his range for a call.

You've got two hands that will beat you, KK and AA right out of the gates. But I think the frequency of him having those hands vs. something in the AK-A10 range is slim enough that a push is justified. I'm pretty sure he will call the push, just being who he is.




Follow [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

A push here is bad, trust me. badbadbad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently you were right. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]




Follow [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
All the more reason to remember the dangers of playing OOP.

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Wouldn't that be more of a reason to try for a play like I did? I knew I was OOP and if I could take it down PF with a play like that, wouldn't that make sense?

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

Daniel,

Limp/reraising QQ sucks bad. In fact, its sucks a lot in general (LRR).

I also don't like your read on the villain. The fact he raises evereytime he enters the pot is usually a sign of a good player, not a bad one. More important is the amount of pots he was entering.

Like others have said, pushing here is really bad.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
More important is the amount of pots he was entering.

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This number was pretty high too, and he showed down a couple of very weak PF hands. I'm not arguing your point of my play being bad, but I just wanted to provide more info for you.

Like I've said, I am a newb to NL cash games and I have much to learn.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

I push and reload if needed.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I push and reload if needed.

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You must reload a lot.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

Dbitel,

Is this push or fold?

Fold>push>call?

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
More important is the amount of pots he was entering.

[/ QUOTE ]

This number was pretty high too, and he showed down a couple of very weak PF hands. I'm not arguing your point of my play being bad, but I just wanted to provide more info for you.

Like I've said, I am a newb to NL cash games and I have much to learn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have PT? If not, get it and GT+ or PA HUD. This will let you know what % of pot people are playing.

The reason I say this, is that I'll open raise with T7o if its been folded to me OTB as well as a lot of other trash, any I play a very tight game

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have PT? If not, get it and GT+ or PA HUD. This will let you know what % of pot people are playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just got my PC laptop last night and was on a Mac prior. I'll probably have PT within a week or two (when I finish the Party/PSO Bonus).

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

With Hero's read yes I will relaod.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

Why is lrr'ing so awful? I hear it often on these forums with no explanation.

And for the record, he may have raised anything to $1, but when that third raise comes out, you're usually beat unless he has a history of putting it in a big pot without the best hand pf.

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

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Why is lrr'ing so awful? I hear it often on these forums with no explanation.

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what other hands do you LRR?

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

So you are saying it's too predictable?

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So you are saying it's too predictable?

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among other things, yeah!

not to mention, what happens if it gets limped through?

Re: Did I have too much love for the ladies?
 

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Why is lrr'ing so awful? I hear it often on these forums with no explanation.

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what other hands do you LRR?

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More importantly, what other hands do you limp at all?

You shouldn'tbe open limping, in 6-max. Especially if you are a beginner.