3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB is my nemesis at this table. A little loose preflop, average postflop but he has been getting lucky tonight.
Loves to wait until the turn to raise.

UTG+1 is 24/13/1.85. I realize suited aces are likely in his range this hand,
but he could easily be making a play with a number of different holdings.

CO is average/weak.

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>...

What's my play from here?
Suggest an alternate line?

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

* remember, you really are dealing with a clueless noob *

What was the original flop bet for, to help fold flush draws (which is perhaps why UTG raised to fold out CO)? I just see this as such a weak hand now that we have no flush or straight draws, will most likely see some overcards flop and only have 5 outs to draw to (which we probably won't have odds for on the turn). In such a small pot I probably just would have checked (is this a total waste of being on the button?) and maybe bet on the turn if checked thru again otherwise fold. I dunno, maybe my play is way too weak and I guess I would like to know where my 7s stand, but not for this pot.

GcluelessnoobG

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

The way I see it you gotta go back to the reason that you would play a mid-small suited connector:

1. Low straight possibilities
2. Flush possibilities
3. 2 pair

You ended up with none of these and only mid pair w/no kicker and only minimal draws. The bet on the flop makes sense, more trying to make a stab at the pot because you might have the best hand (as long as no more cards come). With the C/R by UTG and your 3-bet, you might as well consider yourself on a stone cold bluff and with 2 players yet to act you've got yourself in a spot. Unless one of them drops (BB) and you can convince the other that you have a monster, you're humped. Considering the amount in the pot PF, I would say that you were way better off just dumping this turkey after the UTG raise.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

I'd probably just check this tiny pot on the flop and hope to catch something on the turn.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

First, I think you could make an argument for raising PF. That's dependent on table image though. You could use another lmper or two also.

As played, I like the flop bet because you could have the best hand. Giving a free card here is pretty bad IMO. After you are called and then raised, I call the raise and fold the turn UI.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

If he just calls the flop three-bet and checks the turn, I bet the turn and try to get a free showdown. If he just calls the three-bet and bets out on the turn, I fold. If he just calls the three-bet and check raises the turn, I fold (screams set). If he caps the flop, I call and fold the turn if I don't improve.

EDIT: I pretty much completely disagree with everyone else's advice here, especially the argument for raising a limped pot with a very marginal suited one-gapper. This isn't six-max.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

I like the flop bet, representing the ace and with chances to improve. UTG+1 could just be building the pot for a flush draw but without a made hand. Don't like the 3-bet even though it could push out bb. If capped I'm paying one more to see the turn but folding the turn UI.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

check the flop, but since u didint fold to the c/r reverse implied odds SCREAM for attention let alone [censored] pot odds ahahahahahahaa RECIPE for disaster

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

IMO, 3 bet on the flop is total spewage. You are down to 3 players w/o the raise. You already have button position. There is nothing to buy from the raise AND you have already been c/r'ed once. Testasterone overdose.

67s is good for straights and flushes, but NOT after this flop. I check the flop and fold the turn if bet into and u/i. This dog barks.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, 3 bet on the flop is total spewage. You are down to 3 players w/o the raise. You already have button position. There is nothing to buy from the raise AND you have already been c/r'ed once.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if the 3-bet knocks out BB and slows down UTG+1 who could very well be holding a hand I beat?

If you feel UTG+1 does not have an ace, then how would you proceed here?

Note: that this is not a 'standard' play for me.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

Preflop: I believe that you played this just fine being on the button. There was enough action to justify wanting to play. (I usually like 4+ to play connectors anytime)

Flop:
His raise screams one of two things to me. He either has an ace or a pair higher than a 7. You don't have a straight potential, you don't have a flush potential and you are only middle pair.

I'd either check/call or bet/call with check/call being my play of choice. You want to see if you can improve for a single bet. Just my taste there.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

TripleH,

I like the flop bet but I think when you 3bet the flop it's pretty much a bluff. Even if UTG1 is making a play, if he's making a play with a 7 it beats yours, and if he's doing it with a PP it's probably 88/99ish. Add the fact that BB is still in there, and they probably don't both have draws. I'd rather just peel to the first c/r. As you played it if villain shows any more aggression I'm pretty much done, though if he caps I will take a look at the turn.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

You can't know that your 3 bet will knock out BB. Instead, it looks like you are forcing an opportunity to make your nemesis cold call you. And how can that be worth getting capped by your raiser? If you are ahead, your lead is perilous as best and your hand has lost all power of straights or flushes. So you increase your aggression as your hand gets worse?

If UTG+1 doesn't have an Ace, what is he raising on? I would raise pockets higher than 7's which puts you behind.

This doesn't look like a good hand for non-standard play. I would check the flop around. I am trying to protect a 2nd pair with a krap kicker. I have a chance to see a turn card for free, take it. u/i its is b/f. If I hit two pairs or a set with the turn card, and then I am a player.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

As played, if not capped, I'd bet the turn in hopes to take a free showdown. If I'm shown any more aggression I think it becomes a simple odds question whether or not we will call additional bets to the river (we prob can fold though given that 2 of our 5 outs are tainted.

I think the flop 3-bet is a more curious play though. Would UTG+1 c/r the flop w/a flush draw? I could see something like K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in his range here if that is the case. We also have the CO to worry about. Is he capable of folding a small A? I can see him having a flush draw here a good portion of the time as well. Basicvally, I don't like the 3-bet because a parlay of events need to happen for it to work out, and the size of the pot doesn't help your case either here.

On a side note, I like the flop bet.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

Without any flush possibility, the fact that there was no raise pre-flop, and a flop check-raise usually indicating at least top pair, I would fold. I would not always bet the flop, here, either.

-J

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

i like a check fold here

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

I don't get why people are so keen to fold the flop. Yeah, we got checkraised. But we're getting 10:1, probably, with position on both villains, in a situation where basically one of our 5 outs is tainted (we could lose hitting any of our outs of course, but position + the small overlay makes up for any of that imo). If the BB call/3bets I could see a fold despite the bigger pot because that's basically aces up/set/flushdraw, and if he has the flush draw that means UTG1 doesn't.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

While the flop bet may be OK, why the 3bet? Most 3/6 games I play in there is little to no chance of bluffing on the flop. Also the board seems pretty scary.. two clubs, an overcard, while Hero only has middle pair, no kicker, no flush/strait draws.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB is my nemesis at this table. A little loose preflop, average postflop but he has been getting lucky tonight.
Loves to wait until the turn to raise.

UTG+1 is 24/13/1.85. I realize suited aces are likely in his range this hand,
but he could easily be making a play with a number of different holdings.

CO is average/weak.

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>...

What's my play from here?
Suggest an alternate line?

[/ QUOTE ]

In case you are wondering why I have not advanced to action on the turn - BB and UTG+1 folded without hesitation.

I posted because I was unsure of my plan if called or capped. I made the play on impulse and after much thought I think this was a good play. I had position, pretty good reads and I think I give up on too many marginal hands. Sort of the old if I'm going to play this hand on the button I can't be running away from it every time it halfway hits.

Thanks for the replies. Oh and I do think the flop bet was mandatory.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

Wow. You confused the posters with your 3-bet here. There's no consensus on this hand at all.

My $.02.
The flop bet is mandatory. It's extremely poor poker to check this through.

I don't like the 3-bet at all. Maybe you had stronger reads than you indicated in your OP. What makes you think neither BB or UTG have an A?

As played, fold to any extra aggression, except you can wait till the turn to fold UI to a flop cap. Lacking aggression, bet the turn and check behind on the river.

Make a note on UTG. c/ring on a full bluff with 2 people already in and no immediate fold equity is an uncommon play.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

It's fine. So is calling and raising the turn. Really depends on the guy, but I think anyone who's 24/13 is probably trying to read hands and you can reasonably represent a hand. Those numbers, with their looseness and aggression, suggest he's thinking.

People who want to check the flop should get their heads examined.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

does anyone else but me say muck this preflop????/ seriously am i missing somthing????? and uhh i would only play it as a steal raise hand. unless a very infrequent " i call a raise and then fold the flop" guy comes along and hes the only guy in the pot.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

[ QUOTE ]
does anyone else but me say muck this preflop????/ seriously am i missing somthing?????

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you're missing easy money.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

[ QUOTE ]

does anyone else but me say muck this preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

A nice lower-medium suited non-gapper connector in last position with 2 other limpers in a loosy goosy game is prime poker real estate.

As for the hand, I like a flop bet with the possible best hand and with great semi-bluff potential by representing that Ace, but the 3-bet just seems ridiculous. Okay, maybe its to try to isolate UTG... but with what, a 5 outer against his possible better hand?

And the results are just wierd. Perhaps you have a fantastic read and know that this kind of bluff-c/r on the flop is common with UTG. Then I might agree. Did you have this knowledge? Otherwise, I have no idea what you are doing here other than posting a hand in which you got lucky on a misplay.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

ok then would you raise like he did or just call. it seems that at best youll flop bottom pair and have reverse odds to deal with if you are getting called.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

[ QUOTE ]
ok then would you raise like he did or just call.

[/ QUOTE ]
You should probably reread the opening hands section in SSHE or a similar book. You're hoping to see the flop cheaply. If you don't flop a big hand, or draw to a big hand, you can get away from the hand for only a single sb - which will happen most of the time. But when you do hit a hand, it'll typically be very strong and you'll be able to collect lots of bets from the rest of the field, and make up for all the times that you folded on the flop.

Raising here doubles the minimum amount it costs to play this hand, which doubles the amount you need to win on big hands to make a profit, and so it's really out of the question.

Re: 3/6: 76s flops second pair on the button.
 

PF call is good with small suited connectors.
Flop bet is good, nobody has shown any interest so you may have the best hand and you don't want to give free cards to the draws.
Flop 3bet is spewing, unless you have a read that he pulls this kind of c/r then fold move often.