Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

This is a live, 9 handed private game in my hometown. The makeup of the game is comprised of successful businessmen mainly, and three younger kids (myself included), one of whom is a WPT winner and v. strong player.

The cap is 5k in the game and it's just warming up.



Hand 1:
Effective stacks are 5k.
A new player I haven't met before shows up in the game and he has raised two hands preflop in the first four hands he's played. One limper, he makes it 150 in the cutoff I make it 475 on the button with K9dd. Everyone else folds and he calls OOP.
Flop is 835 two diamonds. He leads for 600. At this point, what is my best line for the rest of the hand? It seems to me like he has a mid-high pocket pair and I don't know much about his capabilities as a player but neither does he of my game so I assume I'd have some FE vs. his range.
Who calls and why, and who raises and why?


Hand 2: Effective stacks are 5k
MP raises preflop to 125 cutoff calls I call on button with 34dd, the SB who is the host of the game and a fairly decent player calls. Flop comes A37 two spades, with the As.
The flop chks around. Turn is a 4, non spade. I make two pair. The small blind leads out for 300.

Are people raising here, if so, to how much? I thought he might have checked an ace on the flop or is now betting a spade draw.

I make it 900 to go. He thinks for a while and calls. This is when it gets interesting.

River is a 3 of spades, completing the flush, giving me a house. He leads out for 1600.

I have about 4k left. What is my action?

Any feedback is welcome,
dlpnyc21

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

what is the blind structure for this game? Just curious.

Hand one: This is the fourth or fifth hand you have seen this guy play and you decide to repop him with K 9? Pretty questionable. I just call on the flop because I have no clue how this guy plays or if he is capable of laying down an overpair. If checked to on the turn I check behind unless I hit my flush. If bet into on the turn I fold unless I hit a king or he bet too small to price me out of the flush draw.

Hand 2: All you can eat. I highly doubt he flopped or turned a set with this action. Looks like a flush to me.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

wtf, interesting?

1. PUSH 2. PUSH

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

hand # 1: This is close. The pot odds would seem to dictate a call of the flop-bet (you're getting better than 2:1, and you're only 3:1 to make the flush by the river). If a diamond does not hit the turn, or if the turn perhaps gives villain an even stronger hand, then you can re-evaluate what to do at that time.

Hand # 2: From your description, there is almost no way you are up against a better full-house. For me, this is at least a call.


TK

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

Blinds are 10-25, typical opening raise with no limpers is 125 or 150. I really don't think either hand is clear, I think hand 2 is between call/shove, and hand 2 is between call/raise (shove would be a fairly large overbet)

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

You say I'm not up against a house, well then, shouldn't I raise the river?

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

The only reason I don't raise the river is because there is only one way you get called -- by a better hand. I believe you are good 98% of the time.... poker has a funny way of showing us that last 2%.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only reason I don't raise the river is because there is only one way you get called -- by a better hand. I believe you are good 98% of the time.... poker has a funny way of showing us that last 2%.

[/ QUOTE ] He will only get called 2% of the time. Damn. He should've had something else so he could bluff.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

Thinkards,

are you on crack? you're trying to decide between calling & FOLDING on hand 1??!?!??

and hand 2 the river made a flush...you think he's folding a flush to a raise? stop giving other people credit for being good at poker. when you get fullhouses raise and let them make bad calls.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

Hand 1 I call for deception..hopefully a diamond or K falls on the turn..this does not mean I go nuts with it unless I hit the ace of diamonds and board does not pair
Hand 2...RAISE

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

I would raise hand 1 just because I had preflop initiative and believe that I can take him off his mid pocket pair on the flop a very large % of the time.

Hand 2, what is the question? His most likely hand is a flush and you went runner runner full house. It's not like you're super deep and have to worry about a 4-bet with 200 bb stacks or something. Just put it in and expect to be good most of the time.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

Hand 1: Not the greatest spot to be in against someone you don't know at all (and shouldn't have 3-bet pf with K9 - 62o is much better for that purpose). I'd call the flop and try to get a read on the turn. If he seems the least beat shaky when he bets it, push.

Hand 2: Just push, it's about a PSB anyway.

Kirk

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Not the greatest spot to be in against someone you don't know at all (and shouldn't have 3-bet pf with K9 - 62o is much better for that purpose). I'd call the flop and try to get a read on the turn. If he seems the least beat shaky when he bets it, push.

Hand 2: Just push, it's a little more than a minraise anyway.

Kirk

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

wtf pf is fine in hand 1. Flop is interesting i think all 3 options are ok (call, raise 1800ish, shove)

in hand 2... u have a full house- in a live game...

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

[ QUOTE ]
(and shouldn't have 3-bet pf with K9 - 62o is much better for that purpose)


[/ QUOTE ]

ur really really off imo.

RESULTS
 

In hand 1, I decided to raise to 1700, which was a really bad raise in retrospect because I should have just made a huge raise to show him I was never folding and therefore had more FE. He deliberated for not too long and shoved, I had to call and I didn't suck out vs. his KK.

Hand 2: I decided I was beating a flush and he might call off with a flush in this range. He tanked it, stood up from the table, counted the pot, and after about 5 minutes he called with A3, value shove no good.

I think hand 1 is mostly a call, or if I raise it, I should raise bigger in order to conteract the perception that he has FE.

In hand 2, I guess the river is a raise vs. his range, especially since we just got there and the proverbial "wheels" have come off the game.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(and shouldn't have 3-bet pf with K9 - 62o is much better for that purpose)


[/ QUOTE ]

ur really really off imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, i like the "imo"... as if this was debatable.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1:
A new player I haven't met before shows up

he makes it 150 in the cutoff I make it 475 on the button with K9dd. Everyone else folds and he calls OOP.

I don't know much about his capabilities as a player


[/ QUOTE ]

call the flop. live games are so much easier with reads, I think you can get a better spot after you see more from him.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:
the SB who is the host of the game and a fairly decent player

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to have a read on this guy. If he's capable of calling a shove on the end with a flush, you shove. If not you call. This hand sounds more like a tough beat post.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(and shouldn't have 3-bet pf with K9 - 62o is much better for that purpose)


[/ QUOTE ]

ur really really off imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, i like the "imo"... as if this was debatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's very debatable, 'imo'. Pre-flop was basically a resteal from someone he percieved to be overaggressive based on seeing him play 4 hands. The problem is, he picked a hand that's easily dominated in a number of ways and can get him in trouble post-flop. With 6,2o you know exactly where you stand and don't have to play any guessing games. To the obv forthcoming response of "well, that's called playing poker," while that may be true, setting yourself up for tough decisions from flop on is NOT the key to winning the game.

Now tell me how I'm so way off that "it's not even debatable."

Kirk

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

The point of my 3-bet preflop was obviously a resteal, but I wanted to immediately establish a LAG image in the game and put myself in a position where I am the one doing the running over, and not vice versa. However, I think I probably could have picked a better hand to do it with, b/c I do agree that K9dd is too often dominated. I also probably should have raised but larger to his flop bet, so that, if he does have 1010-QQ, he is put in a really bad spot.
Thx.

I still am not sure what's best (between calling and raising) but there are definitely merits to both.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

hand 1 is either a call or a push, for the reasons you stated. i prefer a call since usually a call in that spot looks very strong - if he checks you can push the turn, and often if he would have folded to push, he'll check/fold turn, and if he would have called the push he will shove turn. you save yourself money when he has a monster and win the max i think by calling.

hand number 2 just stick it in there.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

Shove-Shove

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

hand 1- call and see what happens on the turn. If he bets a non- pairing diamond raise for sure.

hand 2- PUSH!!!

Re: RESULTS
 

Perhaps biased cause though I haven't played this game but I know the players.

Hand 1 I agree you need to raise more if you do raise, but I don't think anyone in that game folds KK given that action. Especially someone who is splashing around and looking to pick off a move just like the one you did.

Hand 2 I had a very similar hand recently against Persian who you probably know and I just-called $1,200 pot-sized bet on the river with double-paired board and flush out there. I had second-worst FH. He was $4,000 behind and I thought he'd only call with a better hand if I pushed.

FWIW, he had the worst full house and everyone thought I was a moron for not pushing.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(and shouldn't have 3-bet pf with K9 - 62o is much better for that purpose)


[/ QUOTE ]

ur really really off imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, i like the "imo"... as if this was debatable.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's very debatable, 'imo'. Pre-flop was basically a resteal from someone he percieved to be overaggressive based on seeing him play 4 hands. The problem is, he picked a hand that's easily dominated in a number of ways and can get him in trouble post-flop. With 6,2o you know exactly where you stand and don't have to play any guessing games. To the obv forthcoming response of "well, that's called playing poker," while that may be true, setting yourself up for tough decisions from flop on is NOT the key to winning the game.

Now tell me how I'm so way off that "it's not even debatable."

Kirk

[/ QUOTE ]


dude, it's not even debatable. if you really are that bad at playing postflop and making "decisions" in this spot, pretend your K9 is really 62o and play it accordingly. just imagine, it's like making the move with 62o but sometimes you'll hit flushes and straights and cool stuff like that!

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

Push and Push.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

Hand 1: You have position! Just call, play poker on the turn, try to stack him with a diamond. Raising can easily result in a) Getting blown off your hand or b) Getting it in as a big dog to an unknown. The turn is the tricky street IMO.

Hand 2: Umm, fold preflop. We really think this is an EV situation!? Anyways. Flop is obviously good. I think I smoothcall turn for pot control, since we are throwing up if he 3-bets. Plus, if we smoothcall the turn and he checks a bricked river, our thin value bet looks like missed spades. The river is interesting as well. It looks like a shove; all we're afraid of is 77 and 44 (the latter being very unlikely), and there are plenty of flushes which will give us value. This could also be a block with an ace I guess.

Quickfetus

PS: What do you guys think of smoothcalling turn?

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

[ QUOTE ]
you're only 3:1 to make the flush by the river)

[/ QUOTE ]

mistype?

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

[ QUOTE ]
[It's very debatable, 'imo'. Pre-flop was basically a resteal from someone he percieved to be overaggressive based on seeing him play 4 hands. The problem is, he picked a hand that's easily dominated in a number of ways and can get him in trouble post-flop. With 6,2o you know exactly where you stand and don't have to play any guessing games. To the obv forthcoming response of "well, that's called playing poker," while that may be true, setting yourself up for tough decisions from flop on is NOT the key to winning the game.

Now tell me how I'm so way off that "it's not even debatable."

[/ QUOTE ]

why do people who clearly do not comprehend HSNL enough to beat it even post advice in HSNL?

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

id probably fold pf hand 1
given you didnt, call here. alot can happen on the turn. problem with raising is even if you have fold equity - which is probable - you're leveraging your stack to win the pot... basically any raise you make PCs you to call the rest of it if he pushes

hand 2 you should bet the flop

obv push the river, no?

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Not the greatest spot to be in against someone you don't know at all (and shouldn't have 3-bet pf with K9 - 62o is much better for that purpose). I'd call the flop and try to get a read on the turn. If he seems the least beat shaky when he bets it, push.

Hand 2: Just push, it's about a PSB anyway.

Kirk

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, K9s is better to reraise then 62o, but the point is its not much different at all.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

dlp. whatup man. i cannot believe this [censored] post was bumped 9 months later. i'm gonna be at foxwoods the next month. fell free to stake me. but if ya dont i will be in nyc for the next 3 months. i'll see ya in the games.

- GTL -

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

Hi dlp,

I'm pushing both for sure. If you raise the flop in hand 1, you'll have to call a shove, and given your read, it seems like he'd do that (TT or whatever). He probably won't fold a medium overpair, but so what? Sometimes he'll have less, and when he doesn't have less, it's real close to a flip.

Hand 2 is a no-brainer push, I'd say. Weird line for him to take with a hand bigger than a flush, and you don't have enough to get reraised, so I'd put him squarely on a flush and shove. It's up to him if he wants to call, but you're very rarely behind here IMO.

Re: Two hands from LIVE 5k max-buy in private home game
 

hey, idk about foxwoods, might not make it out b/c of schoolwork. gluck though. and i played/ran bad in october when I started playing HU. Guys, please respond to my newest post though, not this one which is months old.
thanks,
dlpnyc21