PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

I hopped into a Party 5-10 full ring with an average pot of $87. I normally stick to 3-6 and below but the 3-6 were all tight monsters and I got lucky when the list momentarily emptied. Looking for critiques of my play on this hand. Forgive the lack of a well formatted hand history. I'm posting from memory.

I've played a couple orbits but haven't been paying attention. BB is 47/11/3 over a meaningless 22 hands.

I open raise in CO-1 with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and only BB calls.

Flop (4.5sb): J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB bets, I raise, BB 3-bets, I cap

I took his opening bet to mean a J, a 2, a small pair, spades, or anything else a loose BB would call a position raise with, so I put in the standard raise. Given my standard raise I felt his 3-bet could easily have been light and didn't think folding to his 3 bet or calling and folding to a turn bet were great options. Hence the cap to represent a good hand and take control.

Turn (6.25bb): 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB bets, I raise, BB calls

I thought his lead on the flush card was hinky and felt it was a good card for him to bluff on. I raised to try to fold his J, small pair or junk. Once he called I was done.

River (10.25bb): 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB checks, I check


My first reaction after playing this hand was that I had FPS out the wazoo, that I gave too much credit to an unknown player because I was playing a bigger game than I was used to, and that I was a complete tool. As I thought about it I changed my mind and decided my play wasn't completely horrible.

So which is it? Did I play retardedly fast and blow off 5 bets with garbage, or was my line and thought process reasonable? Tool or not?

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

please read the following

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...page=&vc=1

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

bad flop raise. I actually just call down.

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

This is just spewfulicious. Where, exactly, do you feel you were giving him "too much credit"? Or, were you giving him too much credit for being able to fold, which is not indicated by the thin read you do have?

I don't think the flop raise is bad, per se, but that's the last money I'm putting in UI.

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

Too much credit for a being tricky, thinking player, as opposed to a nitwit like me.

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

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I don't think the flop raise is bad, per se, but that's the last money I'm putting in UI.

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If i'm raising as the last money put in UI against this guy, it'll be on the turn.

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

You advocated calling down before. You like calling the flop and raising the turn better? Calling down just seems too weak here.

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

If your read was "the more this guy bets and raises the worse hand he has" then you played this hand perfectly.

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

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You advocated calling down before. You like calling the flop and raising the turn better? Calling down just seems too weak here.

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No, I'm still calling down, but if i'm gonna raise it will be on the turn. If he is as LAG as he seems, he's on a pure bluff enough to warrent the calldown. Raising at any point is not as good because we are either getting played back at (and folding what might be the best hand) or he'll fold and we aren't gaining value from a third barrel bluff.

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

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If your read was "the more this guy bets and raises the worse hand he has" then you played this hand perfectly.


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Ah you've seen my auto-rate rules

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

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If he is as LAG as he seems

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Now I think you're giving Hero's "read" too much credit. You've seen 22 hands, and haven't been paying attention. If this is a re-steal, I don't mind taking it down on the flop. If not, I don't want to get cute without being able to at least say, "I've seen 22 hands, and he's been pushing hard with crap," or, "I've seen him playing hard but not showing down."

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

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If he is as LAG as he seems

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Now I think you're giving Hero's "read" too much credit. You've seen 22 hands, and haven't been paying attention. If this is a re-steal, I don't mind taking it down on the flop. If not, I don't want to get cute without being able to at least say, "I've seen 22 hands, and he's been pushing hard with crap," or, "I've seen him playing hard but not showing down."

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Thats why I qualified it. Anyway, if he had more hands, I think its an easy call down. As is, it's a qualified call down. A call down also allows you to develop your read on him. I just don't think raising the flop has much value.

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

Good link, Hobbs. Those examples help me a lot in thinking about these often awkward flop situations.

To the OP, even in a blind steal situation, there must be a point in the hand where you realize that you are not going to get someone to fold, and I think that should have happened somewhere between his flop 3-bet and turn donk.

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I took his opening bet to mean a J, a 2, a small pair, spades, or anything else a loose BB would call a position raise with, so I put in the standard raise. Given my standard raise I felt his 3-bet could easily have been light and didn't think folding to his 3 bet or calling and folding to a turn bet were great options. Hence the cap to represent a good hand and take control.


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The 'standard raise.'?? I suppose you mean the continuation raise considering your PF raise? You just said you took his bet to mean a J, 2, 2 spades, or a small pair. Okay, I can see the raise given his wide range for control, but when you get 3-bet, you just assume he is raising light because he's a lagtard (which you haven't proven), and so you cap?? to take control? Control of what? The only good thing this could really accomplish is at this point is 1)cheap showdown 2) hand disguise if you hit your Ace and 3) information as to what his turn bet means. Its beginning to appear that you have no fold equity...

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I thought his lead on the flush card was hinky and felt it was a good card for him to bluff on. I raised to try to fold his J, small pair or junk. Once he called I was done.

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Why would his lead on the flush card be hinky? You ended the last betting round with your cap, so leading out doesn't nescessarily just mean a pure bluff. You raise to fold a J? That's not gonna happen. You are putting 2 bets now into this bloated pot to 'maybe' get rid of this guy who is clearly not afraid of what you are holding, with a hand that has little showdown value.

I like your early agressiveness, but like I said, look for that point at which you must realize that you are drawing. The pot is getting pretty big, and your almost pure bluff line gets less effective with every bet put into the pot. At least you got a free showdown.

Re: PP5-10 - heads up with laggy BB
 

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I normally stick to 3-6 and below

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I've played a couple orbits but haven't been paying attention.

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You should pay more attention than usual when playing higher limits. About the hand: you should usually play .05/.1 when you need to let the steam out. As played - bet the river, 3-bet if raised. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]