Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

At many restaurants it's standard for them to put an automatic gratuity for parties with more than eight people. Let's say you're out to a nice dinner at an 8+ group and the bill is pricey, but 70% of it is the wine. Gratuity automatically put on the total. Is this cool?

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

Crap.

You aren't ever obligated to pay the gratuity, but thats a tough spot. I vote this an actually good tipping thread.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

this is the second time I've seen someone questioning the idea of tipping on the wine portion of the bill...

what's with that?

I personally tip on the bill regardless of the price of wine...but I've probably only maxed out at $110ish worth of wine at about 35-40% of the bill

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

depends on what the tipping percentage is

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
depends on what the tipping percentage is

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was basically always 18% or 20%.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

Wait, I'm not good at math, but are we talking about a 2% difference for a pretty extreme example here?

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
depends on what the tipping percentage is

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was basically always 18% or 20%.

[/ QUOTE ]

orrect me if im wrong.
Standard tip used to be 10%, then out of nowhere (anyone know when) it became 15%, now many are saying 15 to 20%.

Should we assume in X years it will be 20%.

Now what causes the rise?
Hypothesis 1...minimum wage hasnt gone up but cost of living has so tips have had to rise to keep these waiters/waitresses at their current standard of living. But, who pushed for this?

Hyposthesis 2...There is a group of people who take pride in tipping more than standard amounts. These people also like to talk about it and it makes them feel better than others. This went on long enough that others began to feel the need to tip the same or else be looked down upon by waiters/others. Now these people who need to feel bigger than others that are making up for other insecurities need to push the tipping even further. These people will be the ones that push it to 25% next.

Hypothesis 3...Maybe something im missing. Or i was wrong and standard has always been 15-20%, but i grew up thinking it was 10% because thats what my parents tipped.

rJ_

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
depends on what the tipping percentage is

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was basically always 18% or 20%.

[/ QUOTE ]

orrect me if im wrong.
Standard tip used to be 10%, then out of nowhere (anyone know when) it became 15%, now many are saying 15 to 20%.

Should we assume in X years it will be 20%.

Now what causes the rise?
Hypothesis 1...minimum wage hasnt gone up but cost of living has so tips have had to rise to keep these waiters/waitresses at their current standard of living. But, who pushed for this?

Hyposthesis 2...There is a group of people who take pride in tipping more than standard amounts. These people also like to talk about it and it makes them feel better than others. This went on long enough that others began to feel the need to tip the same or else be looked down upon by waiters/others. Now these people who need to feel bigger than others that are making up for other insecurities need to push the tipping even further. These people will be the ones that push it to 25% next.

Hypothesis 3...Maybe something im missing. Or i was wrong and standard has always been 15-20%, but i grew up thinking it was 10% because thats what my parents tipped.

rJ_

[/ QUOTE ]

Irrelevant to discussion.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

Don't ignore me skater boi!

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
Crap.

You aren't ever obligated to pay the gratuity, but thats a tough spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying youre not obligated to pay as in dont eat there if you dont like it. Or do you actually mean you can eat there with the 8 and you can have a choice in not paying the mandatory tip?

rJ_

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]


Are you saying youre not obligated to pay as in dont eat there if you dont like it. Or do you actually mean you can eat there with the 8 and you can have a choice in not paying the mandatory tip?

rJ_

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I'm saying if you decide not to pay the "mandatory" tip you will never have to. This may or may not apply to situations where you rent a room, set a menu and agree to things beforehand.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
At many restaurants it's standard for them to put an automatic gratuity for parties with more than eight people. Let's say you're out to a nice dinner at an 8+ group and the bill is pricey, but 70% of it is the wine. Gratuity automatically put on the total. Is this cool?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing about that meal could possibly have been cool.

scrub

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
At many restaurants it's standard for them to put an automatic gratuity for parties with more than eight people. Let's say you're out to a nice dinner at an 8+ group and the bill is pricey, but 70% of it is the wine. Gratuity automatically put on the total. Is this cool?

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely standard.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

Not really cool, given that the dude is getting a couple hundred extra for pouring a few glasses of wine. Pretty sweet deal for him tho'.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
depends on what the tipping percentage is

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was basically always 18% or 20%.

[/ QUOTE ]

orrect me if im wrong.
Standard tip used to be 10%, then out of nowhere (anyone know when) it became 15%, now many are saying 15 to 20%.

Should we assume in X years it will be 20%.

Now what causes the rise?
Hypothesis 1...minimum wage hasnt gone up but cost of living has so tips have had to rise to keep these waiters/waitresses at their current standard of living. But, who pushed for this?

Hyposthesis 2...There is a group of people who take pride in tipping more than standard amounts. These people also like to talk about it and it makes them feel better than others. This went on long enough that others began to feel the need to tip the same or else be looked down upon by waiters/others. Now these people who need to feel bigger than others that are making up for other insecurities need to push the tipping even further. These people will be the ones that push it to 25% next.

Hypothesis 3...Maybe something im missing. Or i was wrong and standard has always been 15-20%, but i grew up thinking it was 10% because thats what my parents tipped.

rJ_

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I don't know when you think it was 10%. Not saying it wasn't, but my parents were tipping 20% in the early 80s. (I only remember it from 1985 on). I think that in some cases more people have held jobs in the service industry so they know how tough it can be and have a tendency to tip more.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At many restaurants it's standard for them to put an automatic gratuity for parties with more than eight people. Let's say you're out to a nice dinner at an 8+ group and the bill is pricey, but 70% of it is the wine. Gratuity automatically put on the total. Is this cool?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing about that meal could possibly have been cool.

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we about to start hearing about non-refundable room charges again?

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

If you don't want to tip on wine, either go to a BYOB or don't order wine.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

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Not really cool, given that the dude is getting a couple hundred extra for pouring a few glasses of wine. Pretty sweet deal for him tho'.

[/ QUOTE ]

For every table like this, the guy probably has 5 tables of girlfriends' night out with soup and salad where he runs water and bread to them for 2 hours for $3.75.

Plus, it's hardly an extra couple hundred unless we're talking about $200 bottles of wine or something.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

not cool

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

Not cool, but in my experience, standard.

I always tip at least 20% on the total cost of the bill, and don't give consideration to pre-tax/alcohol.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

the problem is when the wine gets to the $100+ range and ordering 4-6 bottles means the waiter/captain is getting an easy $20 per bottle just for opening the bottle, which is noticeable.

so, when the wine is a siginificant part of the meal some people tip 20% on the food portion and leave the wine off.

i've done this in practice and also dealt with this a few times when i waited/captained tables at a high-end restaurant, parties who ordered v. expensive wine would ask the tip be left off the bill and if they asked, we obliged.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

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Not cool, but in my experience, standard.

I always tip at least 20% on the total cost of the bill, and don't give consideration to pre-tax/alcohol.

[/ QUOTE ]

same here, but my wine bill is seldom high enough that it matters. if you are ordering $500 worth of wine, that's almost an extra $100 that really isn't nec. to tip

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

I normally tip 20% for 'standard service.'

If the waiter automatically puts a % on the bill, then I don't tip over it. I figure he's gambling on whether I'll tip or not.

A friend used to waiter at Olive Garden. It would be a game time decision whether he'd auto add gratuatity on the bill or not.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

Automatic gratuity = getting jacked

I tip for good service. Is the good service automatic also? If they already know they are getting 20%...I seriously doubt it.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

Ed: There are many cases in which this is NOT optional and there is a REQUIRED service charge of x% per person added.

Daver: Alright, let's do some math here. First off, I've seen this usually be 17-18%, not 20. Let's say a 10 person group where average food tab will be $70/per. $700 food. Now add about $1500 wine for $2200 total tab. If 18% is added to that, that's a $400 tip. Up to about $100 per bottle, I don't worry about it and just tip 20% on the whole thing (ie: 5 bottle of $80 wine = 700 food + 400 wine = 1100 = I would just tip $220). So, let's guess you had 8 bottles of ~$200 wine here. I'd tip 20% on the $700 food for $140 + 160-200 on the wine for $300 to 350. They tacked on $400 at 18%, so you end up paying about $50 to $100 more than I might have total. I would think that was a tad excessive, but eh, $250 per person or $260 per person, whatever. So, numbers please, Dave!

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
I normally tip 20% for 'standard service.'

If the waiter automatically puts a % on the bill, then I don't tip over it. I figure he's gambling on whether I'll tip or not.

A friend used to waiter at Olive Garden. It would be a game time decision whether he'd auto add gratuatity on the bill or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I waitered at a Chili's when I was in college. We had the policy of 15% to parties of 8 or more.

Like your friend, it often was a game-time decision to add the gratuity or take my chances and hope to get 20% based on my good service. Unfortnately, sometimes I would just add the automatic 15% on, because I couldn't take the chance of getting stiffed.

For instance, on a Friday or Saturday night, we would have to tip out 4% of our total reciepts. (1% each to bartender, busboy, expo, and runner). So if a party would only leave me $5 on a $150 tab, not only did I not make money on that table, they actually cost me $1.

While that's not earth-shattering, when you factor in that they're taking up other tables in my section for the time the party was there, it can make or break a night.

So that's why the servers sometimes put the automatic tip on there.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

Also, I hope that part of Daver's story includes some dude who wasn't drinking that night.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

Tipping is silly. I tip, and so do most people that I know, however it has gotten out of hand. In the old days, servers got less than minimum wage if anything at all from the restaurant. They were working for the tips. Now, in Oregon at least, servers get minimum wage from the restaurant. Once you start tacking on 15-20% of every bill, these guys are making good money provided they work at a moderately priced place. Sometimes I get into a discussion about it with someone at my table. They are always pleading the case for the servers. "They get paid crap. They work is really stressful and dealing with idiots all the time sucks." Well what about our friends at McDonalds or Carl's Jr? That job is way worse. At Carl's some guy brings me my tray when the food is ready. Even better, when I have finished my soda, I can go get my own refill instead of waiting around for an overworked waiter to refill it for me. Nobody tips them. They are essentially doing the same job. Don't tell me about quality of service either. Sure I have had better service at a slow restaurant. But its not substantially better. My order gets messed up approximately the same amount of time at each place. The servers in a slow restaurant are slightly more friendly, but I have had bad ones there too. The servers that get hired at the highend steak houses or italian places or really nice "take a date" there places have great servers who know about wine, and different cuts of meat and other things about the menu. These guys are making a career out of the service industry and probably deserve a little extra, but the waiters down at Applebees or Chilis or other places like that are little better than the staff at a fast food joint. Tips should not be required.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tipping is silly. I tip, and so do most people that I know, however it has gotten out of hand. In the old days, servers got less than minimum wage if anything at all from the restaurant. They were working for the tips. Now, in Oregon at least, servers get minimum wage from the restaurant. Once you start tacking on 15-20% of every bill, these guys are making good money provided they work at a moderately priced place. Sometimes I get into a discussion about it with someone at my table. They are always pleading the case for the servers. "They get paid crap. They work is really stressful and dealing with idiots all the time sucks." Well what about our friends at McDonalds or Carl's Jr? That job is way worse. At Carl's some guy brings me my tray when the food is ready. Even better, when I have finished my soda, I can go get my own refill instead of waiting around for an overworked waiter to refill it for me. Nobody tips them. They are essentially doing the same job. Don't tell me about quality of service either. Sure I have had better service at a slow restaurant. But its not substantially better. My order gets messed up approximately the same amount of time at each place. The servers in a slow restaurant are slightly more friendly, but I have had bad ones there too. The servers that get hired at the highend steak houses or italian places or really nice "take a date" there places have great servers who know about wine, and different cuts of meat and other things about the menu. These guys are making a career out of the service industry and probably deserve a little extra, but the waiters down at Applebees or Chilis or other places like that are little better than the staff at a fast food joint. Tips should not be required.

[/ QUOTE ]

You lost me at hello.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

Maybe its just me, but when I am dining and repeatedly gazing at the Outback hostess' boobs, or checking out the ass of the sixteen year old waitress at Stewart's, I don't feel bad about tipping a little extra. I make okay money, certainly more than them, and remember what it was like to be young and scraping some money together.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tipping is silly. I tip, and so do most people that I know, however it has gotten out of hand. In the old days, servers got less than minimum wage if anything at all from the restaurant. They were working for the tips. Now, in Oregon at least, servers get minimum wage from the restaurant. Once you start tacking on 15-20% of every bill, these guys are making good money provided they work at a moderately priced place. Sometimes I get into a discussion about it with someone at my table. They are always pleading the case for the servers. "They get paid crap. They work is really stressful and dealing with idiots all the time sucks." Well what about our friends at McDonalds or Carl's Jr? That job is way worse. At Carl's some guy brings me my tray when the food is ready. Even better, when I have finished my soda, I can go get my own refill instead of waiting around for an overworked waiter to refill it for me. Nobody tips them. They are essentially doing the same job. Don't tell me about quality of service either. Sure I have had better service at a slow restaurant. But its not substantially better. My order gets messed up approximately the same amount of time at each place. The servers in a slow restaurant are slightly more friendly, but I have had bad ones there too. The servers that get hired at the highend steak houses or italian places or really nice "take a date" there places have great servers who know about wine, and different cuts of meat and other things about the menu. These guys are making a career out of the service industry and probably deserve a little extra, but the waiters down at Applebees or Chilis or other places like that are little better than the staff at a fast food joint. Tips should not be required.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you just stiff the waitstaff at Applebees / Chilis etc?

Curious,
-Al

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying youre not obligated to pay as in dont eat there if you dont like it. Or do you actually mean you can eat there with the 8 and you can have a choice in not paying the mandatory tip?

rJ_

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm saying if you decide not to pay the "mandatory" tip you will never have to. This may or may not apply to situations where you rent a room, set a menu and agree to things beforehand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the menu states that there is a mandatory gratuity on large parties, or for any other particular reasons, then you are legally obligated to pay it. Once it is published on the menu, it is considered just as much a part of the prices as the cost of the food.

However, if you feel that the service truly did not merit that gratuity, most managers will accomodate you with a lower percentage. And as to wine . . . tough [censored]. No, it doesn't make sense to tip $20 on one bottle of wine that just has to be opened and poured when you'd tip the same amount on a couple of five-course meals, but that's just life and restaurants.

Scott

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

I think auto-grats are the gayest thing ever. However I don't understand the argument about tipping less cause they are just pouring the wine. It's easily the same amount of work carrying a few dishes as opening and pouring the bottles. Service is service.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think auto-grats are the gayest thing ever. However I don't understand the argument about tipping less cause they are just pouring the wine. It's easily the same amount of work carrying a few dishes as opening and pouring the bottles. Service is service.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just about to say that. The waiter doesn't just swing by the restaurant, pour a couple of drinks, grab the cash and leave. They are there for setting up and closing down the restaurant. They have a job to do to make you're experience a good one. If you are spending X amount, you should tip at least X x 15%. It shouldn't matter if X is mostly wine, or mostly food. If that's what you are spending, then that's what you should tip.

Automatic gratuities are simply necessary to avoid situations where a waiter gets shafted. It's one thing to get stiffed on a party of 2, but when a big party takes up a waiter's section all night and leaves him like $5 or something, it's just not right.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
Automatic gratuities are simply necessary to avoid situations where a waiter gets shafted. It's one thing to get stiffed on a party of 2, but when a big party takes up a waiter's section all night and leaves him like $5 or something, it's just not right.

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I'm sorry, but the occasional stiff is the cost of doing business.

And I personally do not care about their time involved to setup/break down for service. That's called overhead.

If a resturant is so scared that they may occasionally get stiffered on a tip, they shouldn't be in the resturant business in the first place.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Automatic gratuities are simply necessary to avoid situations where a waiter gets shafted. It's one thing to get stiffed on a party of 2, but when a big party takes up a waiter's section all night and leaves him like $5 or something, it's just not right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but the occasional stiff is the cost of doing business.

And I personally do not care about their time involved to setup/break down for service. That's called overhead.

If a resturant is so scared that they may occasionally get stiffered on a tip, they shouldn't be in the resturant business in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that 19 year old who's trying to make some money for college totally deserves to be [censored] over.

And if she doesn't like it, well, it's a tough world, missy. Deal with it.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Automatic gratuities are simply necessary to avoid situations where a waiter gets shafted. It's one thing to get stiffed on a party of 2, but when a big party takes up a waiter's section all night and leaves him like $5 or something, it's just not right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but the occasional stiff is the cost of doing business.

And I personally do not care about their time involved to setup/break down for service. That's called overhead.

If a resturant is so scared that they may occasionally get stiffered on a tip, they shouldn't be in the resturant business in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that 19 year old who's trying to make some money for college totally deserves to be [censored] over.

And if she doesn't like it, well, it's a tough world, missy. Deal with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Always provide great service and it works itself out. The 'big tips' will far outweight the stiffs in the long run.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]


I'm sorry, but the occasional stiff is the cost of doing business.

And I personally do not care about their time involved to setup/break down for service. That's called overhead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know what it's called. It's just an explanation for ppl. who don't understand why they should have to tip on wine.


[ QUOTE ]
If a resturant is so scared that they may occasionally get stiffered on a tip, they shouldn't be in the resturant business in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. And people who have a problem with tipping, whether voluntariy or automatically included, shouldn't be dining out in the first place.

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

[ QUOTE ]


Yeah, that 19 year old who's trying to make some money for college totally deserves to be [censored] over.

And if she doesn't like it, well, it's a tough world, missy. Deal with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are not getting screwed over or stiffed. There is no obligation to tip (outside of when stated mandatory).

There has only been 2 cases where I left zero tip and that was for extremely poor service. However, when I hear people talk of the obligation to tip it seriously wants me to not tip at all. If more people didnt tip, then maybe they would stop "expecting" it and work a little harder.

rJ_

Re: Tipping, automatic gratuity for large parties
 

just to clear this misconception up. if a waiter gets stiffed on a party that took up most of her night, it is likely that she will have zero profit for the night. roughly 3% of their food sales go to the host/dish boys etc, regardless of actual tip sizings. I have heard of at least one instance where a waiter was given a $100 tip on a $6000 bill, and left with $5 for the night, and her manager simply didn't care.